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+--- Thread: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields (/showthread.php?tid=128512)
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Binski - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 08:38 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(04-17-2015, 08:18 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Two words...'Oyster Creek'You are completely misinformed. Oyster Creek was never in the middle of the Premium Scrap field. When the base's location was leaked a certain skype chat apparently caught fire with rage and was intent on blowing it up, the the admins moved it to prevent the base being blown up off the back of metagaming.
......
Well I saw it at its original location which was approximately 15k below the middle of the pscrap area of the grand negre. I learned after it was moved, a mistake on the forum allowed their post requesting core 2 upgrade plans to be visible to everyone, instead of being invised, which warranted its special treatment. To me a base that close to the center of that field would have all but cut off that pscrap field due to the reach of weapons platforms and being an easy launch location for xenos ID'd ships. I'm fairly certain its original purpose would have been to give Xenos a defended stronghold just seconds away from the mining area, one that would have only been found after it was core 2, requiring RP to attack, and being able to have defenses deployed. This would be like an outcast base being set up 15k below the ore field in Tau-23. Even though its farther away now, i still couldn't see the IMG ignoring a hostile POB even 20k from their ore fields for very long, despite a forum error. Things like this seem stranger to me than POB's defending guard systems, that's all I'm sayin.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lythrilux - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 09:46 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Well I saw it at its original location which was approximately 15k below the middle of the pscrap area of the grand negre.There's a pretty big difference between saying "middle of the pscrap field" and "15k below". Vessels can still be pirated within that range.
(04-17-2015, 09:46 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: I learned after it was moved, a mistake on the forum allowed their post requesting core 2 upgrade plans to be visible to everyone, instead of being invised, which warranted its special treatment. To me a base that close to the center of that field would have all but cut off that pscrap field due to the reach of weapons platforms and being an easy launch location for xenos ID'd ships. I'm fairly certain its original purpose would have been to give Xenos a defended stronghold just seconds away from the mining area, one that would have only been found after it was core 2, requiring RP to attack, and being able to have defenses deployed. This would be like an outcast base being set up 15k below the ore field in Tau-23. Even though its farther away now, i still couldn't see the IMG ignoring a hostile POB even 20k from their ore fields for very long, despite a forum error. Things like this seem stranger to me than POB's defending guard systems, that's all I'm sayin.Honestly I think a Xeno POB could be an exception to the stuff mentioned in the OP. Provided it never amounts to Battleship Platforms (which I don't think it even has now?) that could be good for activity given how the most popular factions that can mine pscrap would be hostile to the base and having hostiles close by could increase interactions as it'd add a stronger element of danger to Scrap Mining. I kind of wanted to see Xenos get an NPC base near that field personally, for the aforementioned effect. That's all speculation though, it might not have that effect.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - SpaceTime - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 09:23 PM)St.Denis Wrote: I will stick my hand up with the following Base that is harming Gameplay:
Mont Blanc Storage Facility - Picardy system - GMS|
I bought the Base from somebody that didn't want it anymore - Guilty
The Base is on the edge of a Mining Field - Guilty
The Base has 1 or 2 maybe 3 Weapon Platforms - Not Guilty (it hasn't got any at all)
I quick dock when I see a Pirate - Not Guilty, I just sit there RP a little and pay my dues. This, I have also noticed, is the same with some of the other Miners (I can't speak for all of them). I have even been pirated by one of the Miners that uses the Base (on his alt character).
If the Piracy just becomes stupid (as in every 5 minutes/everytime I log in) then I will dock - Guilty
Will the Base have Weapon Platforms? - No
Gallia is a very active place - No (most people don't even waste their time there)
Does my Base create some activity in Gallia? - Yes. I have miners who fill it up and Haulers that go and sell it when I put the Base to Sell (I personally don't haul Ore). Some days there is quite a bit of activity in Gallia. This is due from the Miners/Haulers using that Field/Base. New players use this to make money so that they can get more Ships and involve themselves within the rest of the Game.
Before you try to victimize yourself and take it on a personal level, you refrained from answering the most important question. Because clearly from your answers you're not the victim here since you're making the pirate a favor by letting him pirate you.
- How would your PoB be negatively affected if it's moved 15K away from the mining field?
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - |nfrared - 04-18-2015
Oyster Creek, I was wondering when that would come up...
100 million credit skype bounties like the one laid out at the conception of Oyster Creek aside, yeah, I would call that special treatment, thank you for pointing that out. Yes it got moved due to an honest mistake, but that didn't stop people grid-scouring for it did it? Also any notion that I am an "admin buddy" as eluded to earlier is misinformation at it's most base level.
The original idea of Oyster Creek was so that Junkers wouldn't be safe mining P-Scrap. Funny how this got turned around on us so quickly.
I might also add that we didn't even have the scrap mining bonus when this base was first built. I was simply looking for a covert location. So there's most of those sort of arguments about my base placement "POOF" gone. A week ago I would have prayed for someone to siege it so I could finally be free of my commitments. "Those hours supplying tho" and the support of the XA is what keeps me here.
Also, as was recently proven to me, a hegemon simply cannot escape to a safe location in either of those P-Scrap fields, even with a POB only 16K away. It simply lacks the manoeuvrability for such an escape.
Also, about the whole posing as a Freelancer base thing (we actually posed as Zoners which shows me how much attention people were actually paying but I digress...) the notion that there wouldn't be a way to alter the IFF transponder temporarily (which we had some pages of forum RP around) is silly considering some of the other scenarios I have seen play out on the forums. In fact, if you ask me the IFF should be hidden as the only way you can see it if you can't dock on the base is the Base list here on the forums (yes, that's right, how many times was that base identified as a "Xeno base" with no inRP evidence? Several times).
You want to continue pointing fingers at what's ruining gameplay? Clue - I don't think it's the just the POB's at fault.
Now I will have a coffee and a sandwich, and come back to no doubt screeds of replies about Xeno special treatment, like the awesome eagles we have access to and the special attention our lone pilots get in 5 to one ganks (which most of us like by the way).
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lythrilux - 04-18-2015
(04-17-2015, 09:23 PM)St.Denis Wrote: [color=#FFFFFF]You didn't argue against the whole of my statement. If you want to pick up on a point, pick up upon the whole package. Pirates are going to have to theoretically pay 100 million just to pirate in a mining field, but miners don't have to pay anything just to be able to mine in the mining field. I also don't see how it's fair to fork out 100-150 million to do something which I should already be able to do without a cloak, but it's due to the players who have saturated the mining fields with those POBs that only have one expensive and unreliable counter-technique.Quote:So it's going to become the norm for Pirates to fork out ~100,000,000 just to be able to pirate a single hauler/miner? I don't see haulers or miners paying 100,000,000 every time they want to mine in one of these POB infested mining fields. Also please, I'm not going to believe that you're able to pirate in a storm of 5 battleships weapons platforms. Furthermore it's not healthy to suggest that players should give up and go pirate elsewhere.Really? Has the Cloak suddenly become a one shot item? You also mention that you make most, if not all your money, by pirating, I am sure that you can afford the 100-150 million for a Cloak. I am equally sure that you can easily make that money back by turning up, uncloaking and doing a 5 millordie demand whilst putting the Bases Shields up.
(04-17-2015, 09:23 PM)St.Denis Wrote:Why should pirates have more leeway? Well considering that recent balance changes have mostly eliminated Jump Gate piracy, buffed Transports considerably and taken away the ability to use Gunboats for piracy, Pirates have been getting the poor end for the stick for quite a few versions. The balance is out of whack. I don't believe they should have a strong advantage over traders, I just want balance between the two.Quote:Yep, Space is dangerous that is something I agree with. Traders/Miners shouldn't have it easy when it comes to making a profit and I don't feel that Pirates should have an easy life when making money via piracy either (though they should of course have a lot more leeway as it's harder for them)Please, as you are the one that makes all your money from Piracy, tell me why the Pirate should have more leeway? As for it being harder for them, isn't that a personal choice? I see pirates that don't seem to have a hard time unless they sit still and wait for everything to come to them (including the Navy).
(04-17-2015, 09:23 PM)St.Denis Wrote:I'd award you for your statement there, if not for the fact that we're not asking for more: we're asking for things to be returned back to the way they are. If anything, the Miners and POB owners are the ones who show greed - they want the POB in the field to maximize profit and reduce hostile actions as much as possible regardless of fairplay.Quote:Sloth is one of the seven deadly sins and we can see it personified in the forms of POBs. Please don't use your own laziness as an excuse to infect mining fields with detrimental POBs.Nice one, Your statement could be used against you, as I also believe Greed is another one!
(04-17-2015, 09:23 PM)St.Denis Wrote:However when one argues against anything, they SHOULD take into account things from both sides. Mao, as well as a lot of other people in this thread, argue purely from the perspective of a POB owner or miner. They don't give a toss about the other side of the coin. I am well aware of why someone does trading and mining. On top of leading a piracy faction I also lead a faction that mines and trades, which is still the same factionQuote:Yes, yes you are. "I", "my", "I'm". It's all about you, isn't it? You don't have to give a toss about the gameplay on the other side of the coin, as long as at the end of the day you can still keep lining your greedy pockets.Whenever one argues against anything, they do tend to use argue from there standpoint. This also goes for the person who wrote the above quote. You have no idea, other than your own conception of why somebody else does Trading/Mining etc. You are very good at putting people in to neat little boxes. Have you ever thought that you have no clue what makes people 'tick' other than your ill conceived opinion?
(04-17-2015, 09:23 PM)St.Denis Wrote:You must be blind to think I'm the only person here arguing that these POBs are bad with their placement.Quote:In the event that the admins ultimately do move POBs within mining fields, would they do the same for POBs that sit at Jump Holes and Jump Gates?And there we have it, if the person gets what he wants, then he will go after something else. At this rate why don't we just let this person decide how the Game should be played and be done with it? This person is always, instead of just playing the Game, finding things he doesn't like and trying to get it changed.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - St.Denis - 04-18-2015
Quote:Before you try to victimize yourself and take it on a personal level, you refrained from answering the most important question. Because clearly from your answers you're not the victim here since you're making the pirate a favor by letting him pirate you.So now I make myself a victim by letting myself be pirated? It appears I can't win! If I dock as soon as I see the Pirate, I am affecting Gameplay. If I let myself get pirated then I am doing him a favour. Am I also then affecting Gameplay?
I thought the arguments were all about interactions, or infact the lack of, caused by the use of these Bases?
Quote:How would your PoB be negatively affected if it's moved 15K away from the mining field?I never said that the Base would be affected. I came in to the argument because suddenly this Base was added to the list and then became Grouped up with all of the Bases with millions of Weapon Platforms that would instantly kill the Pirate(s). Just because some do it doesn't mean the rest do.
And my question back to you is:
Quote:So, please tell me how my Base is harming Gameplay?
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lord.MacRae - 04-18-2015
Quote:fair to fork out 100-150 million to do something which I should already be able to
Then come without cloak. The base is on the edge of the mining area and far enough that you wont have problems to reach the base or a platform to activate the shields without a cloak.
Quote:It won't be impossible to pirate miners within mining fields.
It is definetly not! You can ask a specialist in that like the Gaian Flora, perhaps she can teach you how to do it.
Quote:Well considering that recent balance changes have mostly eliminated Jump Gate piracy, buffed Transports considerably and taken away the ability to use Gunboats for piracy, Pirates have been getting the poor end for the stick for quite a few versions.
So your RP and gameplay was affacted and restricted due to regulations and because all is changed against you that is your reason for all this? Your only action then is to also restrict others to ruin their fun and work too. Nice attitude.
Do I hear reasons here that you also can not pirate all the ore haulers because of their buffed transports?
Quote:How would your PoB be negatively affected if it's moved 15K away from the mining field?
How would your RP be negatively affected when there are 7 locations where you need to invest more energy in being able to pirate or where you need to invest a thought about how to do it?
The energy the base owner did invest was huge.
Please don't use your own laziness as an excuse to infect other persons gameplay and their achievements.
Quote:POB in the field to maximize profit and reduce hostile actions as much as possible regardless of fairplay.
You're not going to get any points for argueing with fair play. Is it fair when a transport or miner is attacked by two bombers with the words "drop you cargo or die, I count to ten"? Is it fair the transport or miner has no chance against two bombers with torpedoes and antimatter cannons?
He then has to try to flee or to loose everything for what he paid or worked for the last minutes.
Other way round there is a miner with more equal chances when a base with platforms is near. But a bomber will still has a very good chance against a miner. Shield up, avoiding the shots, demanding a payment, killing the miner if he does not pay. This happened many times and will happen in the future if the attacker is not just coming demanding and standing still to be extinguished. But if exhausted what did he lose? Time.
I can tell you many ways how pirates had been successful in the past but I wont!
Quote:Piracy certainly isn't easy right now, let me tell you.
And that is good because it is realistic! Because it should not be easy and it should never be. If it would be easy, Freelancer would not be like it is with houses and an established society with police and military. There would just be some warlords fighting against some warlords.
I see so many people around me having fun with me and the base with so many different RP ideas. From miner to AI over traders up to escorts.
So my question back to you is:
Quote:Please tell me how my Base is harming Gameplay?
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - St.Denis - 04-18-2015
Quote:You didn't argue against the whole of my statement. If you want to pick up on a point, pick up upon the whole package. Pirates are going to have to theoretically pay 100 million just to pirate in a mining field, but miners don't have to pay anything just to be able to mine in the mining field. I also don't see how it's fair to fork out 100-150 million to do something which I should already be able to do without a cloak, but it's due to the players who have saturated the mining fields with those POBs that only have one expensive and unreliable counter-technique.Saturated the fields? A slight exaggeration. You are now doing what you accused a previous person of doing 'I'. This Game isn't about you, it is about all the players. How much money and time has a builder of the Base put in vs the time and money needed to get a 100-150 million credit cloak? I don't think they are even close. That doesn't include the upkeep needed to keep them going (RA, FOW and the fuel to replace what is used when the Base is shot).
Quote:Why should pirates have more leeway? Well considering that recent balance changes have mostly eliminated Jump Gate piracy, buffed Transports considerably and taken away the ability to use Gunboats for piracy, Pirates have been getting the poor end for the stick for quite a few versions. The balance is out of whack. I don't believe they should have a strong advantage over traders, I just want balance between the two.I find this a bit laughable. I have been pirated and these Pirates turn up in Fighters (rarely), Bombers (mostly), GBs and every now and then Capital Ships. They for the most seem to be very capable Pirates and usually get what they want. 2 Bombers or even 1 Bomber and 1 Fighter can easily take out most Traders. How easy do you want it? I have recently seen Posts about getting rid of Traders Regens, restrict their Armour etc. We have had the Scanners reduced time after time and I also remember a suggestion that the Pirate's Scanners should be increased so that they can see the Traders/Navy even earlier.
Quote:I'd award you for your statement there, if not for the fact that we're not asking for more: we're asking for things to be returned back to the way they are.Fairplay? In whose eyes? The Greed works both ways as you want to earn your money from Pirating those Miners/Traders and for it to be easier for you. The hostile actions? I thought this was about interaction or is it really about getting your ships filled up with the Ore or if not getting the 'Blue' and then getting your ships filled up with the ore but to a lesser degree? So Greed? Let's be a bit honest here.
Ah! there is the 'we'. So you aren't asking for more you just want things to be 'returned back to the way they are'??????? You are always asking for things to be changed. 'I don't like JDs because they stop interaction' JDs then get nerfed. 'What do you mean they can still jump 4 Systems? That stops interaction because I still can't Pirate them'. The list is endless of your wants and when you end up with something going your way, you then want more.
[quote]If anything, the Miners and POB owners are the ones who show greed - they want the POB in the field to maximize profit and reduce hostile actions as much as possible regardless of fairplay.
I think quite a few people know how a certain Pirating Group operate. Notice that miners have logged in, log in with Pirate Ships, head to Fields, hold up Miners/Haulers, call in Pirate Transport, take ore, head back to Base, log off. The interaction is really all one sided.
Quote:However when one argues against anything, they SHOULD take into account things from both sides. Mao, as well as a lot of other people in this thread, argue purely from the perspective of a POB owner or miner. They don't give a toss about the other side of the coin. I am well aware of why someone does trading and mining. On top of leading a piracy faction I also lead a faction that mines and trades, which is still the same factionI would agree on your first sentence, but having read a lot of your arguments in other/this Thread you come across as someone who only sees it from their perspective. That isn't just my opinion but some others that I have talked to. As for you being aware why someone does Trading/Miner, I would suggest that you 'think' you know. Not everybody thinks the same way as you, so stop pigeon-holing people.
Quote:You must be blind to think I'm the only person here arguing that these POBs are bad with their placement.No, I am not blind. I may need glasses for reading (old age creeping up) but I think that Garrett Jax answered that question earlier:
Quote:I've investigated the POB blocking JH and JGs before, and every time I do, the POB's in question are discovered to be no big deal and easy to get around. That, from the factions the POB's are supposed to hinder.
Quote:What about POBs like the ones in Puerto Rico though? Stuff like that is one of the reasons why Xenos are so inactive.This statement has left me puzzled so I thought that I would throw it in here as well. So now you are blaming some of the inactivity of one Faction on its inability to enter one system? Very poor excuse.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - St.Denis - 04-18-2015
Whilst I remember I will throw this back in. I have counted the number of people who have posted in this thread. It came to 22, one of those is banned and I don't know if any of the others are Alts.
But from that my previous statement still stands:
Quote:From reading this Thread, I see that the people who argue for Bases, to be in Fields, are a small minority and are generally those that have them there. The other camp are also a small minority of people. I would suggest that most of the Server's Population couldn't really care less.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Crackling - 04-18-2015
POBs in fields help to trade.
I know, you want to say "ask miners", but there are no miners.