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+--- Thread: [High Priority] Capital Sci data code guns change discussion (/showthread.php?tid=182216)
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - McNeo - 07-27-2020
All I'm really seeing here is the Rich vs Poor debate playing out again.
Again, if you want to get rid of the system, you'll need to do it without pissing off the people who actually spent that time to grind to get the guns. It's not going to cost an arm and a leg like it did for Britain outlawing slavery. I agree that the system is dumb, but the people complaining are doing so not through some kind of moral high ground, but because they want the cool toys without having to put in the effort to get them like the people who have them now did. There's no altruism in this thread, that's for damn sure.
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - SnakThree - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 04:37 PM)McNeo Wrote: All I'm really seeing here is the Rich vs Poor debate playing out again.
Again, if you want to get rid of the system, you'll need to do it without pissing off the people who actually spent that time to grind to get the guns. It's not going to cost an arm and a leg like it did for Britain outlawing slavery. I agree that the system is dumb, but the people complaining are doing so not through some kind of moral high ground, but because they want the cool toys without having to put in the effort to get them like the people who have them now did. There's no altruism in this thread, that's for damn sure.
Oh yes. Wanting for redundant and overcomplicated system to be taken down and simply made it via regular money is so horrible. What is the difference if I buy SciData 3 millions each on market vs having to pay equivalent sum of money directly? Read my second sentence for an answer.
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - McNeo - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 04:41 PM)SnakThree Wrote:(07-27-2020, 04:37 PM)McNeo Wrote: All I'm really seeing here is the Rich vs Poor debate playing out again.
Again, if you want to get rid of the system, you'll need to do it without pissing off the people who actually spent that time to grind to get the guns. It's not going to cost an arm and a leg like it did for Britain outlawing slavery. I agree that the system is dumb, but the people complaining are doing so not through some kind of moral high ground, but because they want the cool toys without having to put in the effort to get them like the people who have them now did. There's no altruism in this thread, that's for damn sure.
Oh yes. Wanting for redundant and overcomplicated system to be taken down and simply made it via regular money is so horrible. What is the difference if I buy SciData 3 millions each on market vs having to pay equivalent sum of money directly? Read my second sentence for an answer.
1. People in this thread are asking for them to be cheaper. It's one thing to ask for Acrobatics or Kinetics to have a sell-point for 1.5b/unit, but quite another to ask that to be cut down as people, especially the OP, are proposing here. It's not impossible, mind, but the issue of reparations can't just be swept under the rug.
2. Every sci-data gun I have has been purchased for credits and not sci-data, so clearly its not impossible to get them without using the stupid sci-data system. And I agree with you that it's stupid.
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - Czechmate - 07-27-2020
Why not just keep the prices as they are in conn shop
and just make them cheaper with sci-data +RP
The value would still go down, but not by much
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - Omi - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 04:37 PM)McNeo Wrote: All I'm really seeing here is the Rich vs Poor debate playing out again.
Again, if you want to get rid of the system, you'll need to do it without pissing off the people who actually spent that time to grind to get the guns. It's not going to cost an arm and a leg like it did for Britain outlawing slavery. I agree that the system is dumb, but the people complaining are doing so not through some kind of moral high ground, but because they want the cool toys without having to put in the effort to get them like the people who have them now did. There's no altruism in this thread, that's for damn sure.
I don't fly caps, so I couldn't care less about having the cool toys. Don't project your own lack of altruism onto me.
The 'effort' to get them consists of running along Discovery's mind-meltingly boring credits earning systems, none of which actually promote player interaction at all. Forgive me if I don't think people should have to put tens or hundreds of hours into pressing F3 over and over again just to have access to the full range of cap ship guns. We actually did have a system that worked well for making money and promoting group-focused interactions up until now in the form of conflict zones, but of course those immediately get schwacked with the nerf stick because 200m/hr is apparently too much in a world where outfitting a fucking cruiser costs upwards of 3-4b.
Refund the people who already have them at a value of 3m/scidata if you want. It's not like it actually matters; there is more than enough money floating around in Discovery to have blown all concept of people not being ultrarich out of the water years ago, and all you need to do to introduce a money sink (because apparently we need one?) is to recolour the cultist engines a bit more and announce that they're on sale in limited numbers for 500m each or something. It's that easy.
The system should have been kept as cosmetic only, but some genius decided this was the way forwards to go with tentative gun ideas and now look where we are.
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - Czechmate - 07-27-2020
What's wrong with Sci-Data guns doing different stuff?
Large majority of them are balanced too
A lot of them make your ship a one trick pony
A lot of them are straight up memes
The only thing you need is nerf the couple OP ones and we're good - let people buy them with expensive cash money, give a big advantage/discount to sci data roleplay people
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - McNeo - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 05:53 PM)Omicega Wrote:(07-27-2020, 04:37 PM)McNeo Wrote: All I'm really seeing here is the Rich vs Poor debate playing out again.
Again, if you want to get rid of the system, you'll need to do it without pissing off the people who actually spent that time to grind to get the guns. It's not going to cost an arm and a leg like it did for Britain outlawing slavery. I agree that the system is dumb, but the people complaining are doing so not through some kind of moral high ground, but because they want the cool toys without having to put in the effort to get them like the people who have them now did. There's no altruism in this thread, that's for damn sure.
I don't fly caps, so I couldn't care less about having the cool toys. Don't project your own lack of altruism onto me.
The 'effort' to get them consists of running along Discovery's mind-meltingly boring credits earning systems, none of which actually promote player interaction at all. Forgive me if I don't think people should have to put tens or hundreds of hours into pressing F3 over and over again just to have access to the full range of cap ship guns. We actually did have a system that worked well for making money and promoting group-focused interactions up until now in the form of conflict zones, but of course those immediately get schwacked with the nerf stick because 200m/hr is apparently too much in a world where outfitting a fucking cruiser costs upwards of 3-4b.
Refund the people who already have them at a value of 3m/scidata if you want. It's not like it actually matters; there is more than enough money floating around in Discovery to have blown all concept of people not being ultrarich out of the water years ago, and all you need to do to introduce a money sink (because apparently we need one?) is to recolour the cultist engines a bit more and announce that they're on sale in limited numbers for 500m each or something. It's that easy.
The system should have been kept as cosmetic only, but some genius decided this was the way forwards to go with tentative gun ideas and now look where we are.
Haha good one, I don't fly caps either so don't project your prejudices about my position on to me. Get reverse-uno'd buddy.
Besides that, its people who can't be bothered to trade or farm credits/sci-data who are the primary ones whining here about not having cool toys.
You are absolutely right that trading or farming is generally boring and awful, and I agree that it is. The solution isn't to punish people who have gone through this, by making their grinding worthless. After all, they're playing the game to earn these credits, even if it isn't in a way that's necessarily helpful to anybody.
The systems surrounding how to earn resources in general have needed a serious rework for some time now, since before sci-data even became a thing. Problem is, nobody's done this, and furthermore, for some reason Xoria is still the economy guy. Formulaic calculations of cr/sec is what ruined the economy of this game in the first place, sticking by it now is hardly any good.
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - Saronsen - 07-28-2020
ah yes the sunk cost/time fallacy, my favorite excuse to not fix what is fundamentally broken, because people will feel like their time was wasted because they spent hours farming up a single or, god forbid, multiple weapons, while the majority just didn't deal with it
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - Corile - 07-28-2020
(07-27-2020, 04:41 PM)SnakThree Wrote: Oh yes. Wanting for redundant and overcomplicated system to be taken down and simply made it via regular money is so horrible.
this desu
Scidata is additionally very unwieldy because it requires you to keep actual cargo which cannot be transferred through conn.
The only redeemable quality I see for it is that it technically allows you to store more wealth than 2B on a single character without exceedng 32 bit integer max. But the amount of hoops you have to jump through to make use of this is too annoying to actually use and you could achieve the same thing just by dividing all credit values on Disco by 10 or using some FLHook apis to circumvent the problem.
RE: Capital Sci data code guns change discussion - Typrop - 07-28-2020
oh no not my monopolybux and my time spent writing a post of pseudoscientific word vomit so i have a cheap excuse to get a gun that i heard from my friends was busted as hell and can give me easy blues
like i said people will complain regardless of what is done, see the order playerbase raising a ruckus about the death's hand being 600ms for an update that overall made balance better, and ultimately someone's going to feel like they get shafted no matter what happens