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+--- Thread: Story Railroading. (/showthread.php?tid=191386)
RE: Story Railroading. - Miaou - 02-08-2022
(02-08-2022, 03:21 PM)Ravenna Nagash Wrote: To me, the solution is the following:
- Story devs should serve as mediator, guide, or essentially a Dungeon Master. They should not be the ones actually driving the story. The players should.
- The 1st / 2nd in commands of respective OFs should be able to create drafts, plans, stories, and move the plot along.
- If the plan involves their enemies, the respective OFs Leaders should come to a conclusion together and work it out. Be prepared to lose territory or to make concessions - have it go back and forth. Once the plan is aligned, the Dev signs it off if they thinks it's fair for both parties.
- If the OF leads are unable to come up with a solution themselves due to disagreements, greed, stubbornness or whatever other factor - the Dev intervenes in the most fair possible way. If the two leaders are not happy with that, this will incentivize them to find a common ground next time.
- The rules are kept and guidelines are provided. You prevent chaos and you ensure players and faction agency in the process. This results in people actually having something to look forward to.
- Devs are no longer a roadblock (they need to sign off something brought to them) , and at the same time they guide the process from being broken, out of the rails, or being unfair.
- You don't have 1 or 2 people deciding the fate of the entire mod's story, which is bad for numerous reasons. The process is more transparent.
This is all a good concept on paper. But it ends there. It's been attempted to give official faction leaders more say and have the whole "talk it out with the others". This is before the DWG nonsense even. I myself led a faction (GRN|) and it took like three months for myself and the IMG| leader at the time to submit something we actually both agreed on. It was just to move a valor base near java. We both agreed it should be moved next to Java but it's exact location was a major tripping point and what the IMG would gain from it.
I reference this because that's the most tame example. Faction leaders are often not great people with horrible ideas that only benefit their faction in a positive light. They don't even make sense half the time. Nobody understands that losing something can be great for character motivation and growth. Great for story lines to go and having a real, viable persistent world. There's no vetting process and the admins just approve any faction going for official if it has the time requirement.
Nobody will ever agree to a story line where their faction vanishes or loses so hard it breaks up. But that's a realistic thing that could and should happen. You mention a give and take system but that's just stagnation. Nothing ever actually develops if there's a mindset that one side will lose one story arc then win the next one, repeating the cycle. There's nothing new about that.
If your intention is actually to promote this as a roleplay server, equality and fairness (in terms of how a story line progresses) shouldn't be a factor. People should be fine with losing stuff. People should be fine with developing their characters to feel emotions only than hate for the red target and pride for their green one.
Things need a vast overhaul if you actually want to change how this community runs. Soft changes will do little.
RE: Story Railroading. - Megaera - 02-08-2022
What always baffled me in this game, is that there seem to be people, who think that their story writing is so much better than everyone else's. So much that they can force their story ideas down everyone else's throat and disregard any sort of feedback, because all those other players' stories are bad. They think this because they have a yellow name, like that means anything.
These people are called story devs. Mind you, not all of them have this mindset. There have been good ones.
What they do seem to forget is that they were players who were looked down by previous story devs aswell. They also were crying in these threads, but immediately became the same or worse as those they were yelling at when they got this shiny yellow name. Cycle repeats.
Can we all just remember that staff members are just players aswell. Their ideas aren't any better than that of the average player here and they should get their stick out of their ass if they think they are. Feedback is something to be cherished at all time. Something to learn from and grow as both a player and staff member.
Work with players in the community. You honestly can't afford any more people leaving out of spite.
RE: Story Railroading. - Czechmate - 02-08-2022
Just as I say I have no expectations and want story not making any big cockups they cockup again and order admins to make rep and ID line changes on a whim their buddies asked them to make that go against vanilla lore and player RP, without consulting the affected OF. Let's face it - we'd be almost better off if story team got scrapped at this point and we just got player RP and sensible systems changes made for system's sake + admins corrigating.
RE: Story Railroading. - Binski - 02-08-2022
https://imgur.com/a/VQJiqGc Here's what it says out at Gaia's orbital terminal now. So you're telling me that not only did they (after the siege was over) justify removing the dock point so no more bases can be built out there, they basically just claim they assaulted it and claim it for themselves? What's next, they get their own base only they can dock on? Really that whole situation shows how petty people can be here, and how you can come to this mod and buddy up to the devs and in no time take precedent over players that have been here the better part of a decade. I mean, you really ran a story of killing everyone on Gaia off just to avoid Jonas Hudson from saying he lived there? That is exactly what should be prevented here. If you want to change stuff you should have to do way more than what was cheaply passed off as reasonable. There was no prior roleplay regarding the Gaian's plans for Gaia, they only cared after seeing my base, and scrambled frantically to do whatever it took, even changing the game cheaply (cheating) to keep things in their favor (with a so called RP oriented, non PVP heavy faction leading the siege). And the real reason is, because they are not nearly as creative as others here, and in order to cover their inadequacy as players and devs, resort to the cheapest of moves to destroy the efforts of others because they can't succeed themselves in the same way. I could run your entire story effort by myself and I guarantee it would be more epic and sensible than what we are getting. But what we are all seeing is what happens when gateholders are allowed to fill the positions of power. The same thing is happening with governments all over the world it seems.
Also, I wonder what would happen here on Disco, if to siege a POB, you had to own a POB at core level 2 or higher? I think that would change everything here. No more sieging with cheap capships you pump out to oorp siege someone, then disappear never to be seen again. If you must have a POB at Core 2 or higher (of the IFF of the attacking faction) to attack a POB, that would mean individuals or factions wanting to keep that ability, must already have their work done to be in the game. I think that's only fair, so if you want to go popping POB's, you must have one yourself able to be popped. It would be up to you to keep it hidden, no RP shield or immortal bases to fall back on.
RE: Story Railroading. - TheSauron - 02-08-2022
The sheer hubris to think an event that's been on the schedule since at least June last year was done purely to spite you is just unreal.
As for the main subject of the thread, I think Jeuge and Meg put it best. Just another round of the same old cycle. Ravenna's idea would sure be a great thing to have, but, based on personal experience from the past almost decade now (kill me), I just don't have a lot of faith that it would work around these parts.
RE: Story Railroading. - mm33dd - 02-08-2022
After reading almost all... I'm agree with Haste. If the devs had to take real action based on what the playerbase want, we would have pixel kingdoms and new republics everywhere.
95% wants to be the big dick.
Everyone wants to tell you what to do.
But no one would actually listen.
If personal ego were H-Fuel, GMG will be out of business and Sirius will become a single cloud.
Most of you behave like child. You can't be agree on almost anything, even when serious talk comes to the table.
You can't even choose a representative for a faction because some personal grudge.
And for every potential idea there are like 5 or more mf sawing the floor.
RE: Story Railroading. - LuckyOne - 02-08-2022
As always, Binski's superiority complex gets the better of him.
I will not go the 'it's a conspiracy' route and accuse anyone of OORPly annoying people through inRP means but one has to notice that the Xenos are getting an unprecedented amount of attention lately in terms of actual in-game development,
And the sudden Gaian activity spur is quite suspicious after literally nobody playing them for years.
It is only natural the developers have more interest in developing the factions they feel they have a connection to, but it should not cause other factions to suffer because of that.
I understand that getting everyone happy is an impossible task, but rules should be set, and followed. Not everyone should be getting everything they want done for them and they should be ready to settle on a compromise.
Alienating players from devs more is not healthy for the long term survival of the mod (or at least the current dev team).
RE: Story Railroading. - Stewgar - 02-08-2022
Any faction and any system can change at any given time whether we like it or not and no matter how much effort has been put into it. I can name a handful of players that have left for that reason alone.
RE: Story Railroading. - Binski - 02-09-2022
(02-08-2022, 09:52 PM)TheSauron Wrote: The sheer hubris to think an event that's been on the schedule since at least June last year was done purely to spite you is just unreal.
How naïve to you take me for? You really expect me to believe that? That is what's unreal. Where can I see evidence of that?
(02-08-2022, 11:08 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: As always, Binski's superiority complex gets the better of him.
Well with all due respect to everyone involved, am I really the only one with such a sentiment around here? For others its just not as noticeable because they get their way without much effort. I don't think after 10 years of the same old same old, it's that bold of a claim. How many story turns can we look back on and scratch our heads wondering what the heck was going on there?
This place would be a totally different game if all those devs were setting up the game to be played out in the game. To destroy something, you should need to do more than shovel in a supply event. I'm still positive this place would function better if we were ALL forced to follow a common system of what moves can do what in regards to making changes to stations and planets. Then the devs can get in game and we know they won't be able to rig things in their favor and will be forced to exert force in-game to get stuff done. I don't think I'm so crazy for saying if they used the faction challenge system I put forth years ago, we could fix some gameplay and rp issues, specifically with how they link together.
Under such a system, for the Gaians to change control of Gaia, they'd need to save and spend like 3000 units of scidata first, to get a 1 week siege attempt. They could have had an event around actually raiding the npc base there, and take the planet by force, making it their IFF, if they bring it down to 0 HP within that time. Then we can technically make a rule where if you control a base for at least 6 months without a challenge, you could 'raise' it and take it out of play (if it qualifies and that would need to be pre-designated). Now that's what I call fair, and it generates tons of activity surrounding it that can be fairly countered by other players. Also under my system, Freelancer bases could only be engageable by special permission anyways, since Gaian's don't have Freelancers as enemies, it depends on the faction ROE's. All of that could be sorted out before employing it. To me, that's the game we should be playing/RP'ing around instead of this confusing and often bias (lawless) mode of operating. It will be hard for me to claim bias when I can see a faction worked on the goal in the open and can prove they earned it as it's going on.
What did raising Gaia cost them? Barely the price of their destroyers.
RE: Story Railroading. - Squad - 02-09-2022
(02-09-2022, 04:01 AM)Binski Wrote:(02-08-2022, 09:52 PM)TheSauron Wrote: The sheer hubris to think an event that's been on the schedule since at least June last year was done purely to spite you is just unreal.
How naïve to you take me for? You really expect me to believe that? That is what's unreal. Where can I see evidence of that.
The idea, probably a bit later than that, but the full write-up was posted on September 2. I didn't have time to get to it until January because other events were in the pipeline and I was trying to figure out what to do with a tumor in my neck.
Carry on.