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+--- Thread: QCP to the COZ (/showthread.php?tid=25461)
QCP to the COZ - bluntpencil2001 - 10-03-2009
A question:
Should you actually select a delegate, who would said delegate represent? All of the Zoners? Some of the Zoners? Herself?
Would his or her decisions be binding? Would they bind whosoever she represents?
I ask this because, right now, I don't think the Zoners exist as an organisation at all. Right now, I see lots and lots of Freelancers, with no links to each other whatsoever. Personally, I have neither the time nor inclination to liaise with hundreds of petty individuals to treat on various matters.
I expect a very prompt clarification, and should some unity show itself on your part, I expect a delegate worthy of respect from both parties.
Yours,
Sir Andrew
QCP to the COZ - DAnvilFan - 10-03-2009
Comms ID: (]c[)
Quote:Personally, I have neither the time nor inclination to liaise with hundreds of individuals to treat on various matters.
We are who we are.
CoZ is still intact, though. It just no longer contains faction members. It is likely that you will have to deal with each Zoner faction separately, of which there are 4 at this time.
Long live the Zoner Community.
Regards,
Shipmaster, (]c[)
QCP to the COZ - bluntpencil2001 - 10-03-2009
' Wrote:Comms ID: Yev Lightwing, (]c[)
We are who we are.
CoZ is still intact, though. It just no longer contains faction members. It is likely that you will have to deal with each Zoner faction separately, of which there are 4 at this time.
Long live the Zoner Community.
Regards,
Yev Lightwing,
Shipmaster, (]c[)
So... I have to talk to every single Zoner separately or nothing gets done?
Do these factions have any control over, for instance, jumpholes? Does anyone have any control over such?
If not, I hardly see the point in talking to any of you, I'm afraid, since I need any treaties to be binding, and I don't plan on dealing with the individual members of what is effectively a rabble consisting of; amongst others - militant slavery abolitionists, slavers, pacifists, hawkish battleship captains, scientists, people afraid of poisonous hydrogen, doctors, illegal organ smugglers, anarchists, fascists, libertarians, socialists and ultra-capitalists.
To be honest, that would be far too difficult.
Now, I am willing to deal with the larger factions on an individual basis as they are largely more disciplined, but this chaotic mass? No thank you.
Now, my own, extremely disciplined, band of pirates shall be heating up their antimatter to deal with this lot whilst I prepare my ink and quill to deal with the more civilised groups of Zoners.
Thank you for your time.
Yours,
Sir Andrew, Sultan of Mexico
QCP to the COZ - Dab - 10-03-2009
Incoming Transmission
Comm ID: Aurelia Silvan
Recipient(s): Andrew Stuart
The Council of Zoners still represents the Zoners, though we won't always force our decisions on Zoner factions, as we feel they are responsible enough to hold their own diplomacy and policies that don't conflict with the Council. In those cases where they do conflict, the Council's policies hold precedent, so you will still need to go through us, especially on any negotiations involving Omega-49.
-Aurelia Silvan
<div align="right]End Transmission
QCP to the COZ - bluntpencil2001 - 10-03-2009
' Wrote:Incoming Transmission
Comm ID: Aurelia Silvan
Recipient(s): Andrew Stuart
The Council of Zoners still represents the Zoners, though we won't always force our decisions on Zoner factions, as we feel they are responsible enough to hold their own diplomacy and policies that don't conflict with the Council. In those cases where they do conflict, the Council's policies hold precedent, so you will still need to go through us, especially on any negotiations involving Omega-49.
-Aurelia Silvan<div align="right]End Transmission
Right, I believe I understand.
Basically, a bunch of factions that left said council, due to it going against their ideals, are bound to any decision a council which they are not members thereof has decided for them.
To me, this sounds like responsibility for said groups without fair representation.
But, should a loud few manage to keep the silent majority under their heel, it is with the loud, obnoxious minority with which I must treat, correct? When treating with dictatorships, one cannot realistically expect the ruled to have any input on decisions made.
Therefore, even though the vast numbers of Zoners in the ZAS, TAZ, Consortium and a growing number of independents have no input on decisions being made here, they will still be bound by their lords' decrees, am I correct?
If that is the case, I await a delegate from the Zoners' leadership.
Thank you.
Yours,
Sir Andrew
QCP to the COZ - Dab - 10-04-2009
Incoming Transmission
Comm ID: Aurelia Silvan
Recipient(s): Andrew Stuart
You should do more research, none of those factions left because the Council went against their ideals. I'll leave the real reason they left for you to find out on your own.
And they had all the representation they could have wished for, but voluntarily gave it up. And if that doesn't prove it to you, the leaders of those factions that left the Council and you claim are 'unrepresented' still maintain their membership in the SHIZL. Any Zoner who wishes to have a say can join the Council whenever they wish.. Any who do not are voluntarily giving up their say in the governing process. Unlike dictatorships, we can't and don't force our people into anything, even if it is to their best interest.
You know full well the situation, and our democratic policies.
We will get back to you on this matter shortly, once urgent matters, such as the election of the new chairperson are finished.
-Aurelia Silvan
<div align="right]End Transmission
QCP to the COZ - bluntpencil2001 - 10-04-2009
Of course, the TAZ, the ZAS and other groups with their legions of members are not under-represented, in spite of having a single vote each for their many members. I guess I'm not familiar with how proportionality works here, how the entirety of the Zoners Against Slavery can't be outvoted by a mere two slavers...
Oh well, I'll let you play at silly buggers and childishly inefficient governance if you so wish.
Yours,
Ayatollah Andrew Stuart
QCP to the COZ - Dab - 10-04-2009
Incoming Transmission
Comm ID: Aurelia Silvan
Recipient(s): Andrew Stuart
It's not your understanding of proportionality that isn't up to standard, it's your understanding of how our Council operates on the most basic levels.
We have a policy of 'One Zoner, One Vote.' That includes people that work for larger corporations. The TAZ don't have one vote.. They have one vote for each member of theirs that votes. If five TAZ vote yes on an issue, TAZ has five votes. If five TAZ vote yes, and one TAZ votes no, they have five yes votes and one no vote. We do not discriminate on delegates based on who they work for.
If you do a bit of digging, you might even discover that I was the person who worked towards getting this policy enacted, as I, an independent Zoner, felt is was unreasonable for an entire group consisting of several members to receive the same influence as a single Zoner. And much to my, an independent Zoner's, satisfaction, the policy was amended to grant full votes to every single Zoner, regardless of their status in being in or out of a group.
In fact, some members of those very groups have voiced their concerns that the policy that granted them the same power as the independent Zoners may have given the factions too much power in the end. A quote from Louisa Salome;
Lousia Salome Wrote:The Consortium as a whole has to part now, which is also a chance for all independent Zoners assembled in this council to wield more power because "One Zoner, One Vote" has shifted the balance of power in these chambers dramatically.I assume an enlightened man like yourself can understand the meaning of Ms. Salome's statement.
-Aurelia Silvan
<div align="right]End Transmission
QCP to the COZ - bluntpencil2001 - 10-04-2009
Then why did they all leave, eh, Zoner?
Because they had achieved a perfect society, utterly content and happy with its lot?
Or because it didn't work? Maybe it was after realising that your participatory rubbish lowered your little council to the lowest common denominator?
Now, what authority do you have if you don't represent these groups? Very little I suspect.
Regardless, you bore me with your repeated need to prove points to me, when frankly, I don't care, as it is completely irrelevant to the matters at hand. I don't want your reasoning and rhetoric, I want results. If I want more this crap, I'll take evening classes in Philosophy for (Complete and Utter) Beginners.
-Sir Andrew Stuart, Sirius Poker Champion
QCP to the COZ - Dab - 10-04-2009
Incoming Transmission
Comm ID: Aurelia Silvan
Recipient(s): Andrew Stuart
I never claimed that they were completely happy with their situation. However, it wasn't their status in the Council of Zoners that caused them to leave. Again, it's very simple to figure out who is to blame for their departure. And I'll suffice to say, I completely agree with them on most of their points, and things will be changed, and people will be finding out their actions have consequences, and they won't like what they receive.
For your negotiations, Galen Watson has expressed that he's willing to handle discussion with you, but is currently reviewing the case. Please give him time to go through the entire case and get up-to-date.
-Aurelia Silvan
<div align="right]End Transmission