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+---- Thread: Greyhound...again (/showthread.php?tid=29002)
Greyhound...again - DarthCloakedGuy - 10-29-2009
I'd like to ask why the Dev team has made it so the Rogue's best (and only) anti-fighter vehicle is their TRANSPORT.
Greyhound...again - Benjamin - 10-29-2009
I'll agree that trefoils are horrible turd.
Greyhound...again - MarvinCZ - 10-29-2009
I don't really like one part of the attitude here.
"You screwed it up, now it sucks. And no, we won't try how it really fares, because we know it sucks."
I am personally not sure what the result of all those changes will be, but I am going to check it out.
("I'm telling you, it sucks. You don't even have to try it in game.")
Greyhound...again - tansytansey - 10-30-2009
Mjolnir, riddle me this.
What reasons do the Liberty Rogues now have for flying the Greyhound over the Eagle or Sabre?
Factions in the past have used substitutes when their own ships are inadequate. Since I don't have to new version of the mod I wouldn't have a clue what has changed, but from what it sounds like, the powerplant has been nerfed, before it was a Templar power plant so now it must be a Sabre plant? Eagle plant? (funny how the BAF complain about MR spam when they're using the same power plant)
It's not like the dodging capabilities of the Sabre and Eagle are so drastically worse than the Greyhound to make up for it either, oh and the Eagle and Sabre also have more guns, and class 10 slots, as I assume from reading this thread the Greyhound was nerfed in that department as well (which was the only thing keeping me flying a Greyhound. Thanks for taking that away from me too.)
From where I'm sitting, the LR no longer have a reason to fly the Greyhound because of these changes. When everyone starts complaining because the LR no longer fly their own ships, you only have yourself to blame.
Greyhound...again - AdamantineFist - 10-30-2009
' Wrote:(funny how the BAF complain about MR spam when they're using the same power plant)Har har har. I'd like to point out that the Greyhound is amazingly more maneuverable than the Templar, and DID have an obscenely large powerplant for such a light ship. It did. I really don't care what you say about that, it had a very decent VHF powerplant. That is rather absurd. It's a heavy fighter, not a VHF, deal with it. If you want a VHF, get a VHF, not a Greyhound. If you notice that your powerplant is getting eaten up fast when compared to other HFs, then there's a problem. It might also be your guns. The current powerplant is quite decent for a HF, and is shared by the Gladiator. More specifically, it's the Eagle's powerplant. Don't bitch about it. If you do, you might as well moan about the Eagle having a crappy powerplant.
Whatever else you might say about the Greyhound, there is NOT a powerplant issue. We're talking about a HF, not a VHF here. If you want it to be a lighter VHF as an alternative for the Werewolf, then ask for that, but so far it remains a HF and should be balanced accordingly. I make no comment on the size or maneuverability of the ship as I have yet to see the new model in action, but if there's changes to make, they should be made to work with the new (and still rather generous) powerplant.
Greyhound...again - tansytansey - 10-30-2009
Please, try using Sammaels in combat before you come talking to me about power plant issues. x4 Sammaels drained like a bitch on a Templar power plant, let alone on an Eagle power plant.
Greyhound might have had a large power plant, but it didn't feel like it when using x4 sammaels, when you compare the Greyhound with the Eagle, the Eagle has more fire power, more armour and I'm willing to bet it is still more maneuverable than the Greyhound, and the size difference of the two ships isn't that different either. Oh, and it has a better shield, class 10 guns.
I'm no balancing expert, but it sounds to me like the Greyhound has drawn the short straw here in every department. So give me a good reason why I should make a Greyhound instead of an Eagle when I come back to Disco.
Greyhound...again - AdamantineFist - 10-30-2009
' Wrote:Please, try using Sammaels in combat before you come talking to me about power plant issues. x4 Sammaels drained like a bitch on a Templar power plant, let alone on an Eagle power plant.It. Has. Drawn. No. Short. Straw. As I said, the powerplant is NOT the issue. I do not care how badly your guns drain it. It has a decent powerplant. If there is any fault it is your guns and not the plant.
Greyhound might have had a large power plant, but it didn't feel like it when using x4 sammaels, when you compare the Greyhound with the Eagle, the Eagle has more fire power, more armour and I'm willing to bet it is still more maneuverable than the Greyhound, and the size difference of the two ships isn't that different either. Oh, and it has a better shield, class 10 guns.
I'm no balancing expert, but it sounds to me like the Greyhound has drawn the short straw here in every department. So give me a good reason why I should make a Greyhound instead of an Eagle when I come back to Disco.
Each Sammael drains 72 energy per shot at 8.33 shots per second. That's 599.76 energy per second per gun. At four guns that's 2399.04 energy per second. Your powerplant is 10400 with a regen of 1100 per second. Removing the regen from the drain gives a value of 1299.04 energy per second. This is enough for approximately 8 seconds of sustained fire. I'd also like to note that Sammaels have a considerable damage output, at 256 per shot with 8.33 shots per second. This results in a total damage yield per gun of 2207.45 damage per second. With four guns, that's 8829.8 damage per second. They also have a VERY good projectile speed, at 750 m/s. That is excellent. You have a very good gun, albeit one that might be a bit power-hungry. Not my problem here, and it doesn't seem like it should be a problem for you, either. Oh, and as to having class 10 gun slots... doesn't that just make the power drain FASTER? And having two extra slots at that? Also, the Greyhound SHOULDN'T be as tough as the Eagle. It isn't a VHF. It's a HEAVY. FIGHTER. NOT a VHF. If you have a problem with it being big or slow, then focus on that, NOT the powerplant.
EDIT: Also, I HAVE used Sammaels in combat. I've tried them out with a Sabre, which has a smaller powerplant than a Templar or the old Greyhound. I found that six drained my energy too fast, but four plus two debs formed a decent combo. Using just the four Sammies for huillbusting worked out quite well indeed. Admittedly the Greyhound now has a lower powerplant thant the Sabre, but it SHOULD be smaller/more maneuverable in some way than the Sabre. If it ISN'T in some way harder to hit than a Sabre, then there's a problem in that, as the Sabre is a VHF and the Greyhound is a HF.
Greyhound...again - tansytansey - 10-30-2009
Sammaels are also a laser weapon in a world where Graviton shields prevail. The Greyhound also does not have the luxury of having two extra gun slots to equip debilitators to. Fortunately we have an extra turret now... but that's still a whole two guns less than your Sabre.
If you look at the power plant by it's self, then it is not an issue. But when you look at the Greyhound as a whole it becomes more apparent.
The Greyhound has never been a HF in anything other than name before these changes, and when you have a ship that is bigger than your opponents VHFs, with less fire power, and now less dodging, where does that leave you?
Maybe I should also bring this up again.
![[Image: greycrusader.png]](http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5508/greycrusader.png)
![[Image: greyhound.jpg]](http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/rytirm/greyhound.jpg)
To me, balance is all about weighing advantages and disadvantages. Tell me now, what advantages does the Greyhound have over other ships, like the Sabre and Eagle?
Greyhound...again - BaconSoda - 10-30-2009
' Wrote:Mjolnir, riddle me this.
What reasons do the Liberty Rogues now have for flying the Greyhound over the Eagle or Sabre?
What's stopping you from getting an Eagle of Sabre? If you want to fly one, by all means, go for it. No one is stopping you except yourselves.
' Wrote:Factions in the past have used substitutes when their own ships are inadequate. Since I don't have to new version of the mod I wouldn't have a clue what has changed, but from what it sounds like, the powerplant has been nerfed, before it was a Templar power plant so now it must be a Sabre plant? Eagle plant? (funny how the BAF complain about MR spam when they're using the same power plant)
Well, lets see, Sammeals use 3.68 energy per point hull. Admittedly, that's a rather high drain, however, the LWB makes due with Destroyers, which drain 3.61 energy per point hull very well, and we fly mostly Eagles, which has the same powerplant. If we cannot use full Destroyers, we use some other guns that we can get. For example, we can use the Natterturn Zwei, which has an energy efficiency of 4.24 energy per point hull. to supplement my Destroyers. You could probably use Hellfuries, which use 4 energy per shot flat, have about the same speed, and are generally cool. But wait, there's more! You could use Codenames as well. Lets use a "Bad" codename as an example. Diamondbacks have an energy efficiency of 5.2 energy per point hull! Astounding, hrm? Or use Paralyzers. Those will strip shields for 0 (zero) energy at all, giving you more to fire your three Sammaels with. It's like that's what shieldbusters were made for or something. It's like you have options that you don't open up and blame the dev team for your own challenge or something.
Let me say something: the LR restrict themselves a lot, however, you should not be blaming the dev team for the challenge that you present yourselves. Just because you choose to only use Sammaels does not mean that the server should be balanced around your own little bubble. If you want to fire Sammaels for a longer period, try flying a Werewolf. But wait, just because you chose to only use Sammaels on that again means that it isn't as effective as "PvP whores" would make it, so we should balance everything around you again. This isn't how the world works. Just because you can't get a job in Michigan working for General Motors as an alternative fuels specialist doesn't mean that General Motors should lower its expectations for you. Just because you choose to limit your gun and ship choices doesn't mean that the mod should be balanced around you.
' Wrote:It's not like the dodging capabilities of the Sabre and Eagle are so drastically worse than the Greyhound to make up for it either, oh and the Eagle and Sabre also have more guns, and class 10 slots, as I assume from reading this thread the Greyhound was nerfed in that department as well (which was the only thing keeping me flying a Greyhound. Thanks for taking that away from me too.)
From where I'm sitting, the LR no longer have a reason to fly the Greyhound because of these changes. When everyone starts complaining because the LR no longer fly their own ships, you only have yourself to blame.
So don't fly it. Like I said before, you're the only person restricting yourself. If you want to do something, go for it. Anything is possible in Roleplay.
Also, the Sabre has 7 guns, more than your average fighter. Guess what? The Greyhound has 1 under the normal fighter. Congratulations, you're unique. You could even have FOUR Sammaels with the Paralyzer. Or you could use 2 Debs and 3 Sammeals. It's almost just as effective as my BPA, which uses 3 Splitters and a Debilitator. Oh, wait, it's better. My bad.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, it has the powerplant of a VHF and the size of one. That sounds just about right. It has an advantage, you see, over the following:
Other HFs
Light Fighters
Bombers
Freighters
That looks good to me, really. It can move faster than VHFs, too, can't it? Heavy VHFs for sure, I know that. It's like you have to pick your battles or something. Dear, me. Liberty stinks, doesn't it? That sucks that the Rogues don't have any bases in Cortez, Galileo, or Hudson....
Greyhound...again - Enojado - 10-30-2009
' Wrote:Mjolnir, riddle me this.
What reasons do the Liberty Rogues now have for flying the Greyhound over the Eagle or Sabre?
...
From where I'm sitting, the LR no longer have a reason to fly the Greyhound because of these changes. When everyone starts complaining because the LR no longer fly their own ships, you only have yourself to blame.
Coming from the usual RP purists that go barking mad if someone uses their ships (even if they are allied). Hear. Hear. You'll ditch a ship for a slight pvp disadvantage ? And here's me thinking it was all about the roleplay. Hypocrisy is what it looks like from where I'm standing. (You lot do an awesome job running away almost every time an LN comes along ? Do you fight at all I wonder ? (This of course just for illustrating purposes, you don't hear me judging that.))
Oh and Gloucester, cut down on the personal flames, nerdrage and various other frustrated outings. Get in a skype chat and talk it out. Or go to someone which will hear you. I personally would have stopped reading it after the first "UR PVP WHORE U SUCK U BIASED" like post, and I'm not even a big fan of the recent dev work, but you don't hear me insulting them all over.