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+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=43341)
Zoners - bluntpencil2001 - 07-07-2010
If players want a faction with plenty enemies, Jinx, there are loads already. No point making more, is there?
Zoners - Jinx - 07-07-2010
why a middle group?
isn t that critizism "you have the power, but you re not willing to pay the consequences!" - and when we say "but now, zoners ARE willing to pay the consequences" - the zoner faction gives the community that complains EXACTLY what they demand - a pay off for their military power.
why is that problematic? - and we even leave the real zoners in for those that like to RP them. - please elaborate why that is wrong - when it directly addresses the root issue that came up during most of the "anti-zoner" times.
@
zoners are not making a faction - as a matter of fact - you are one of the people that mentioned that zoners cannot remain neutral when they possess the power they display. - so it addresses what you complained about during the QCP issue some time ago. - it also addresses the issue ( also brought up by you ) - where you said that its good for zoners to have enemies.
for heavens sake - i don t want zoners to have enemies, i m happy with zoners as they are! - but YOU want zoners to have enemies. - i do NOT want zoners to loose their stuff. - so i choose enemies ( what you asked for )
unless you mean :
- zoners cannot remain neutral with such a military power
- zoners must have enemies when they have such a power
- but zoners must not make enemies
- logical result: zoners must loose their military power
but THAT is something different. - then, you don t complain about the ignored RP consequences of military power of a faction, but you complain about the military power of a faction no matter what.
when i offer you to take ALL the consequences military power carries. - and you say "but you must not" - what are my options? - reduce the military power - but what if i don t want to - that leads to an impass thats hard to overcome.
again - it is not i that wishes for change - it is others. ( or in that case it is cross proposing a change ). - when the above is the only logical way to go - there is no choice but to delete the zoner ships. - end of it all. so please show me a way out.
- i want to keep what zoners have
- but i am willing to take all the consequences that this carries with it
- you want me to loose some of the stuff ( which i disagree )
- but you re not willing to agree to the consequences that my stuff which i wish to keep carries with it
Zoners - DAnvilFan - 07-07-2010
<strike>The infocard written for Freeport 14 was developed by someone who did not do their research. Freeports are not located long distances apart because the Zoners are so anti-social that they want to stay away from one another. It's a misconception stemming from a lack of knowledge.</strike>
Nevermind all that. It's not important.
What's important is that everyone needs to calm down. Nobody is getting nerfed and the Zoners will not become military weaklings. Nobody will lose their stuff.
Zoners - Tenacity - 07-07-2010
The explanations to those points are not as complex as everyone seems to believe.
Quote:Currently people complain about the Zoner's neutrality because they have a capital superfleet
Do you really believe that The Order has hundreds of Gebs and Osirises, but only a dozen fighters?
What is shown in-game is not always the case as far as RP or lore is concerned. The Zoners have a full line of capital ships, yes, but in-RP they're only supposed to have a small handful of juggernauts, an average of one or two fearless destroyers per freeport, and the rest of their military force consists of fighters, bombers, and the occasional conference gunboat here or there.
As for why those ships are needed - for the most part, the Zoners live in the edge worlds/omicrons. Guess what else lives out there? Nomads, the two largest pirate groups in Sirius (outcasts and corsairs), The Wilde, The Phantoms, so on and so forth. Zoner capital ships and other military assets exist to protect the freeports and trade convoys from those threats.
Diplomacy goes a long way, sure, but nothing protects a freeport better than a show of force at the right time and place.
Quote: a planet
I dont see any problem here. It's a planet, big deal, they found it and colonized it before anyone else had a chance to. That's how exploration factions work. I'm actually surprised that others like the GMG or IMG havent found their own planets by now.
Quote:an economy that is somehow out-competing house economies
Zoners have a monopoly on deuterium in Sirius. Deuterium happens to be a primary component in the nuclear fusion reactors used by nearly every large ship in colonized space... that brings them in a great deal of wealth, same with the GMG having a near perfect monopoly on H-Fuel. Why the GMG hasnt developed larger fleets to deal with the outcasts or other threats in their space yet, I'm not sure - but it probably has more to do wtih the fact that they consider themselves expert fighter and bomber pilots and are used to doing hit and run guerilla tactics rather than all out warfare.
Quote:and a population that has grown from 4,500 to a magnitude of several hundred million.
Consider what has happened in the houses and with other factions since vanilla FL's time period - numerous wars have gone on, house space is becoming more and more mired in greed and politics, and frankly it doesnt surprise me that people simply do not want to live in that kind of environment. Why bother with that stress when you can live on the quiet frontier and make a great deal of money as a Zoner?
Zoners arent a 'race', they're a group of people, and many of those people are probably not born Zoners, but rather inducted into it when they left their own space or faction behind looking for something better.
Zoners - Dusty Lens - 07-07-2010
I think it's worth noting that the IMG also produced Deuterium.
I'm cheerfully staying out of this thread, other than bringing up that one point.
Zoners - bluntpencil2001 - 07-07-2010
My point was that it's probably better to have one or the other.
Zoners - Unseelie - 07-07-2010
Jinx, you've hit on what could be a brilliant idea, if you want to split the zoner faction. But you need to listen to Blunt, and allow him to spread what is widely recognized as his intent to ruin the zoners.
Instead of splitting the zoners into a strong and a weak, a pvp and a not pvp, split them between, say, house zoners, (such as fp 6, 1, 2, and 14) who are busy placating the houses, at expense of the groups the houses hate, because the houses are the great power there. On the other hand, you have the far away zoners, such as 10, 9, 5, 11, who are rather more interested in holding their peace with the Corsiars, Hessians, Outcasts, order, BHG.
This has its deep issues, of course, in that it proposes to break up the zoner faction. I tend to think that if you want to chop them up, you might as well really chop them up...and the simple suggestion in that has already been suggested, many times, and rather disliked.
The zoners are what they are, and that's an organization very interested in claiming a great many disperse bases. Given that, they've quite a tightrope to balance.
Zoners - bluntpencil2001 - 07-07-2010
' Wrote:I think it's worth noting that the IMG also produced Deuterium.They got shot at too.;)
I'm cheerfully staying out of this thread, other than bringing up that one point.
Zoners - Tenacity - 07-08-2010
' Wrote:I think it's worth noting that the IMG also produced Deuterium.
I'm cheerfully staying out of this thread, other than bringing up that one point.
Everyone can produce it, the issue is the cost associated with that, compared to the much lower cost of simply buying it, in bulk, from the group that can harvest it right out of space.
Zoners - Luis - 07-08-2010
Zoners would have enemies?
....
......
Why?
To say the fact, afaik, Zoners have an enormous armada hidden in space that many won't even know of except for the Zoners. They are much highly prepared for an upcoming surpricing attack that threats the Zoner civilization.
My question is, why make the Jinkusu SRP, seriously - i don't see yet a understandable reason. The Jinkusu has a very unique Role that I see most of the people that has one that plays it well. Other's just lol with it - leave them be. They will get their consequences. They come and interact with you - ignore them ( /ignore <char name>).
Aquillon/Fearless = they shall never get pass REMOVAL from Disco. They are great ships, and made by a rich faction.
But, i will throw in my theory on Zoners...
Zoners have a huge Shipyard on Omicron 74 that is known as the Lividia Shipyard. Also, they have a Factory known as Corsica - that can be able to play a role that produces a large amount of Ship manufactoring components. Nevertheless, they have allies - Order, GMG, and (may be) the IMG - which helps them produce. GMG produces fuel, IMG mines ore for making equipments, hulls, and other components, Zoners make firepower for their vessels, and of course - Order may be the one that shares thier tech (such as - bridge components, you know interior equipment) with the Zoners.
Zoners are a unique, yet very violent when it comes to a fight. They will respect as how you respect them. They share their equipment with outsiders (that is cheap) - expensive deals are to be held by Zoners only and may be close allies.
i have more to say, but I want to see what the public have to say of what i have so far...