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+---- Thread: Faction power (/showthread.php?tid=81039)
Faction power - Echo 7-7 - 05-28-2012
' Wrote:All the IDs are taken and I don't have 500mil to waste
Gallic Junkers, Unione Corse, Maquis, Solar Engineering, Bundschuh, Golden Chrysanthemums, Synth Foods, Planetform Inc. Might be one or two more with Unofficial factions.
' Wrote:Nope.
If I told you, somebody might kill me.
Little amount of influence. Maybe not even influence but recognition. Oh well. Past is past and irrelevant in this particular case.
I believe that this thread might be summed up as Judge not by cover but by content.
As I said, I don't see problem with amount of power factions have. I see some inconsistencies and irregularities in how it is applied and by whom.
I'd say recognition because attempts to influence things seemed to end up back-firing. (Oh, yes, I figured out your old identity. You did add me on Skype, you know, which gave away a certain piece of information. Though I will respect your current privacy and not spill the beans here.)
As far as the thread is concerned overall... isn't it sending a clear message by the way faction leaders are responding with a (more or less) unified "no" to the poll's question, and elaboration on why the suggested changes would not be an improvement?
Quote: Remove 1-faction-per-ID rule for non-House factions (corporations, criminals, etc.)
Remove FR5, and handle things like OORP docking with rules 1.2 and 6.9
Reduce faction input regarding tech decisions
No, don't take away that rule. A clear, unified response to diplomacy is more easily executed. Anyone who is not happy with an Official Faction - well, there are multiple inRP and ooRP paths to talk out the problems.
No, let's keep FR5, thanks. So few of them get through anyway, and it's needed since it's a punishment for RP consequences, not a rules violation.
No, we'll keep our input. Factions are off working to build up relations in order to acquire that tech. If you want the same, then do the same work. Bear in mind that the Devs/Admins oversee the tech system anyway, and have the ability to overrule faction requests.
Faction power - Prysin - 05-28-2012
back in the days i was leading EA together with Dodge.... now i think Order and a few others remember us fine lads, raiding you every 4 hours like a baws....
Truth be told, i spent more time keeping Dodge in check, not to break rules and be a lolwut then i did administrating the forum shiz.... now that was one person, in a 8 member unofficial faction.... If you have those issues in an unofficial one, then honestly, it made me realize i NEVER want to lead a faction unless i can trust all members to act together and sort out their issues in a mature fashion....
As for you Cam, your a nice lad and all, but you cant take criticism... NOONE has questioned your roleplay, however you have in the past been quite fond of borderline powergaming, and that "powergamer stamp" has yet to be removed as you are still doing your own thing.... Ill give you props for the effort you have done with FP 11, but face it man. They got a point, you bitch moan and cry over things but you hardly ever produce a valid argument for why or how it could be fixed, except for "remove it, it sucks", which aint much more of an argument then it is ranting....
As for faction power, where is it????
Let me show you an great example; according to Molly lore, Corsairs blew up a planet of theirs, however NONE of the faction leaders of Sails/OPG Benitez and TBH had even done an even or even tried to make any RP leading to that. It was all Devs adding a piece of lore that absolutely noone had heard about being done or planned.... Even to this day, Zelot still confirms that the faction leaders back then didnt make any orders to attack that planet, which is in londonderry, yet corsairs did it "without doing it"....
Colonials lost Tau 44 after a brief and overwhelming attack, wait, wut??? Colonials have been fighting Outcasts for years and both sides knew that iRP the CR was but a pebble on the road compared to the Maltese Nation, yet they never "lost" any battles.
Order and BHG Couldnt fight of nomads together, wait srsly? According to Vanilla lore almost all nomads got wiped out just 18 years before the Minor attack.... 18 years to create an fleet able to stop perhaps two of the strongest non-house armies in the game? Illogical but also something devs came up with.
Hellfire Legion worked their arses off to get their own system, as far as i know they have never claimed to be hackers, yet they had to share guard system and hellfire tech with them for more then 2 years.
Liberty Rogues made a move trying to create their own Battleship station, a Rogue BS, and move their guardsystem to Humboldt instead, never happened although larger parts of the forums thought it was a great idea.
Jameson established some wonderful RP about OC getting better relations with the nomads, he was met with a big "NO U", most likely since he was who he was, and the whole project was placed on hold...
Jameson also tried to FR5 all the caps who "lolfired" on others around Malta in an attempt to reduce the amount of idiots in capships killing random ppl outside the planet "for the lulz", that almost cost him his factions official status.
There are probably plenty more examples that could or should be presented, but these are simply the ones i know about.
Faction power is minute, the amount of evidence put into a FR5 greatly exceeds the amount of evidence you need to sanction someone for breaking 6.9 itself... which is ridiculous... You litterally need to shoot down a faction leader while in his faction ship and then state "i did that on purpose" for a FR5 to stick......
Factions have learned a long time ago that they simply cant efficiently "use" their rights.. Simply because the line were simple damage control and RP crosses the line of allegedly powerabuse is so thin that a FR5 is not worth doing.
Another great example of faction "power" or rather the lack of it is their ability to ally with others.... Especially pirate factions comes out as the losers here as their seen as some sort of stereotype "we are badguys" and cannot cooperate with the good guys.....
Like why arent Outcasts white to Bowex, BAF, BPA and Planetform by default?? The official faction and indies are well aware that Bretonia is friendly/neutral with them, Bretonian lore supports this by protecting outcasts as lawfuls untill caught doing unlawful actions within the realm.... This is perhaps one of the examples that should be reflected ingame, by the game mechanics and not just the players....
This is some of the stuff that "haunts" official factions, their "power" can be compared to being in possession of the code to a vault, but at the same time, you know opening that vault will unleash more troubles then you can manage.
Faction power - Benjamin - 05-28-2012
1 faction per ID rule: in my personal opinion, conflicts here are the fault of one or both of the factions, not the rule. Assuming the extant faction is representing the entire NPC faction. They have a duty to include you, if you wish to be included. If you want to stay out because you want to do dodgy "indie things" then that's on you. If the faction won't let you in and expand to include your roleplay then it's on them.
This is kind of a pipedream. Lots of factions can't handle groups having different goals and morals within the faction, others will get oorpy mad about not being "in charge," and so on. In little factions like mine it can work, and maybe it shouldn't be too much to ask of all, but right now it probably is.
Geckon: the fact you want to keep your past secret doesn't instill me with rad vibes re:your accountability.
Faction power - Prysin - 05-28-2012
As far as i know, the only successful "cooperation" of multiple official factions is the Corsairs... GC tried but well, Kiretsu were used to undermine GC decisions and vice versa, Zoners have been unfortunate enough to share power over a extremely broad aspect of RP and as thus it was an inefficient cooperation...
Whilst SOB was around, before Dab took the helm, the cooperation between SOB and 101st was splendid, once Dab took over there were certain personal issues between him and the past 101st leader, these issues also spread as far as to incorporate the Kiretsu/GC....
Mercs, they dont count they all work with their own agenda and really dont have anything to fight over (like base/planet ownership and such)....
so the 1 faction pr ID rule should stay, simply because there is so few people on this server that can get along with eachother to the point of constantly cooperating without causing huge ripples in their wake.
Faction power - Daedric - 05-29-2012
As someone who is/was in the leadership of four official factions, I unlike you, Dylan; can speak from experience. All this power you seem to think that official factions have is smoke.
I'll begin with what you've listed:
1 faction per ID - Not something that official factions have any power over. That is the admins rule and while I don't like it; I fully understand why it is there.
Faction Right 5 - Only way to deal with people like you. Actions have consequences; FR5 is one of those consequences. One that is rather annoying to get done and rarely sticks because getting a perma FR5 is extremely difficult.
Faction input on Tech - Is just that. Input. The balance team and admins have final say. The input by the official factions are merely requests. Those requests have been denied.
Someone else mentioned making the laws and such:
Typically handled by a council of official factions. Meaning a rather large group of people handle it. That doesn't make them final, if the admins want to step in and say "NO U" to the law makers; they are free to do so. The laws are there to flesh out the role play environment. They do a superb job at that.
Faction power - Agmen of Eladesor - 05-29-2012
' Wrote:You don't have any room to criticize my RP abillity, dear.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself or you get wrecked.
That was really uncalled for.
...
I like playing with myself.
TEEEHEHEHEHEE
' Wrote:im in ... the 12th grade =P
' Wrote:I got a 21 overall on my ACT, slightly above average, and I do believe an 18 or 19 on math...
I'll be 51 years old in December, I've been playing role-playing games for nearly twice as many years as you've been alive, I've held real life leadership positions where people could die if I made poor decisions, and oh, yeah, I got a 1410 on my SAT's (back when the max was 1600) and a combined on my ACT of 29 (with a 34 on math).
Yes, I have PLENTY of room to criticize your role-playing skills or lack thereof.
But I'm not doing that. I'm criticizing your judgement about how you present yourself in seeking to change the way things are done here. Throwing tantrums and fits is not the way to get along with people in the real world. Granted, I'm not the politically correct nor particularly gentle in presenting criticism of others, but that's part of my personality.
Faction power - Coin - 05-30-2012
yay. indielancer.
/sarcasm off
/trollface off
@OP:
1. what RECENT turn of events has brought about your desire to curb the power of factions?
2. if official factions had no more power than unofficial factions, the work of the admins would increase expoentially. take a look at the corsair court. Osiris's firing on sair gbs... did the player in question take his screenies to the sanction section? nope... and now this player has the right of reply, before the court passes sentence.
if you remove the power from factions, what implement would you use to enforce the legal authority of these player-run constructs that keep players on the straight-and-narrow without resort to admin intervention?
or should we all start playing frapslancer now?
Faction power - Lobster - 05-30-2012
Where is the option for more power?
Faction power - Tabris - 05-30-2012
I'm in favor of giving Official Factions more power, especially over Independants and their own technologies.
One instance where it is needed is Interspace Commerce, IC| was unable to keep a reign in on the independents shipping to the Red Hessians due to a lack of power over them, thus mucking up whatever plans they had in Rheinland and pretty much cutting them off from Rheinland's resources.
Faction power - Jihadjoe - 05-30-2012
' Wrote:1. what RECENT turn of events has brought about your desire to curb the power of factions?
I believe he got his IMG ID'd zoner juggy FR5'd by Liberty, then shortly afterwards the base he had set up for Intrigue Industries was blown up by the Navy.