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+--- Thread: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 (/showthread.php?tid=98543)
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Scumbag - 05-14-2013
(05-14-2013, 10:44 PM)Rodnas Wrote: First of all big applause to AD for tackling this topic - and also bringing in hardwritten ZOIs - if this gets into the mod it might be one of the top additions to it, defining factions and where they should spelunk clean and clear. VERY GOOD!
Of course as someone already mentioned there would be need for some lore based additions, aka the proposed warzones, for example in between two houses, but i guess that is more details than anything else ( and i hope this will get discussed with the faction leaders where to fight their wars)- also the term independent systems should be more clean cut in some cases.
Regarding this: When you jump into California for example, you get a message in the top left corner saying it is Liberty space (i'll make a screenshot when i get home). Could we get those messages for other systems stating: Independent system, Disputed/Warzone, Faction system etc. It could be usefull and complement these new ID changes.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Garuda - 05-14-2013
The only Q_Q point is the Order ID.
Why you don't put this in.
- Cannot bring Cruisers or Battleships (except Resheph Recon Cruiser) into any system containing a Jump Gate with the exception of Alaska, Sigma-19, Sigma-17 and Nomad systems.
What is so difficult about this? Not even abusable, because it says clearly only Resheph aka Recon Cruiser...
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Narcotic - 05-14-2013
Quote:It was a nice experiment for a while, but it really doesn't make much sense for LIBERTY rogues to go park their Barghest in New Tokyo. None of the natives are particulary friendly to them there... not even the GC.
Good call on Kansas and Humboldt. Will fix that.
Since Del has made that broadcast over a year ago - there has never been any Rogue ship been seen in New Tokyo, so I guess that it won't be a high loss. However I wonder why he did it in the first place, and maybe it'd have been a "nice experiment" if there actually would have been anyone in Kusari to pirate/roleplay with.
And speaking about cruisers - if intelligence factions won't be able to use them, why do Police factions still have them? What is their reason to have them anyways?
Also, what about the few Wilde cruisers? Do they have to SRP request them now?
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - captain_obvious - 05-14-2013
Revive the Smuggler ID
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Silver - 05-14-2013
Could use a different line on the underwear.
Ask Matt (cannon) for a new lol.
<3
Ask Matt (cannon) for a new lol.
<3
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Switchback - 05-14-2013
Pirate ID.
Quote:
Independent Pirates are people who want to make money by extorting it from others or through other unlawful means. An independent pirate acts only for his own benefit, and has no allegiance to anyone.
I don't particularly like this, "Has no allegiance to anyone", as most indie pirates have /some/ allegiances, be it to the Junkers, or Rogues, or Outcasts, or Corsairs or whathave you. Otherwise, also this makes sound like there arn't any freelance pirate groups, such as VR, who use this ID.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - AeternusDoleo - 05-14-2013
Quote:As the leader of the Hellfire Legion I have some issues with the ID proposal. Why was that line about piracy added to our ID? We've stated countless times that we do not pirate or tax people and we've been RPing like that for way too long. Please do not include it.Good catch on the piracy line. My bad.
Next issue is the "Cannot ally with any lawfuls" line. That's the problematic line that caused some trouble in the past and we'd like it to be changed to "Cannot ally with House Military/Police" so we can escort traders/miners that belong to "lawfuls".
As for allying with lawfuls - you're basically a terrorist faction in Liberty, bent on overthrowing their (corporately owned) government. That would make you an enemy of the Liberty corporations as well as their law enforcement. Would "Cannot ally with Liberty lawfuls" be appropriate?
Quote:Then I would like to ask Sigma-17 added into KNF ID since it's not directly connecting to kusari like 19 or 13. It was long time since KNF made several patrols in sigma17 and even have some rp about small base on Kurile.Makes sense since there's a Samura base there.
Quote:After reading through the proposals, I must say i am not a fan of the gutting of Intelligence Factions. Limiting them to only their house and the surrounding independant worlds completely castrates them and limits them to basically a local police force.I suggest you read the IDs a bit more closely. The Intelligence factions can do a LOT outside their ZoI. Inside, yes, they act more as navy then anything. Outside, they act as a quasilawful force that can play dirty against enemies of the house.
The purpose of Intelligence factions is to do just what any other Modern Day Agency would do. Gather Intel on anything and everything, and conduct covert ops. This new ID proposal would take away any chance at doing so. I am against these changes in the Intelligence Faction ID's. I am also against taking cruisers our of the ID as they are often an essential part to an Intelligence operation.
Quote:I will be straight to the point. I do NOT like the can treat whoever as a combat vessel line in so many of the ID's. I value RP and even the 1 sentence RP some guys use to engage is pretty crappy. I'm not happy about this change. I want to RP with pirates even if its only a little bit and I still end up dying. I just don't feel this change will do any good for the Server. I think more people will ragequit from this. Especially people who value RP. (Give us a reason to RP, not pew since not all of us enjoy pewing)People fail to see. This is not a carte blance to /1 and pew. Any engagement must have sufficient roleplay at the basis for it. If you get someone who is triggerhappy and itching for blues, does it really matter if you get a "drop all cargo or die" or just get a "die you enemy" thrown at you? Result is pretty much the same: Shooting. Folk who don't want to roleplay will find a way around it.
The distinction between combat target or not, is wether or not the factions are involved in a bitter conflict with eachother. Are you prey, or are you an enemy?
Quote:Why can't those guys ally with the Sairs, as we even get cuddly in the Sigmas together( where we might have to defend against Outcast Hordes)To my understanding the Hogosha are allied to the Sairs, not Samura. Sig-17 added to the ZoI, makes sense.
Also: ZOI extensions to the Sigmas, as they even own Kurile there?
Quote:Why are the Mollys allowed to ally with the Brets after being as backstabby as ever?The devil you know...? Dunno, the Gaians are already in the Gaul camp, which edges the Sairs in that direction as well. Figured the Mollies would realise which way the wind is blowing and go hit the Gauls before they plant a fleur-de-lis on Arranmore. But I could be wrong. Any word from the Molly players on this?
Quote:"Can actively hunt pirates, terrorists and lawfuls in systems that do not contain a jumpgate."
This line makes the AI a terrorist faction or Nomad ID Mk II, just with a bigger ZOI, absolutely no purpose whatsoever. Yes there are many AI fanboys out there that want to shoot everything like crazy, but this ID/Faction needs a major overhaul, some set directions and so on.
Yea. I really wish we could return to the old Harvester MO of be hostile to everything and shoot everything. Then at least they'd have a counterbalance to being able to shoot everything - they'd -BE- shot by everything. But that screws over the existing AI factions. I'm just not sure what to do with this ID. There's players using it as universal trader, as antipirate ID, as "gots us some cruisers and will toast anything" ID. It needs to be committed to a role, and isn't right now. Personally, I'd love it if the House governments would simply outlaw loose AI's so the IDs could be made hostile to the house governments. But that's not up to me.
Quote:Of course the game is called "Freelancer" , but i doubt that on top of the best tech, no responsibilities and an unlimited ZOI the addition of being able to defend "neutral" ships is necessary. Who can ever control who is neutral or even allied to whom? If they want to pew, they should be hired so everyone ca see it, which is worse enough as you can't even check then if the freelancers rep sheet isn't green to his target and red to his employer... oh well, mercs make me paranoid.They can't initiate combat, but they can join in once it starts, and are limited to gunboat or smaller. I don't find this unreasonable. Sure, you'd best watch your back around any quasilawful IDd players. But that is nothing new.
Quote:is it too late to ask for the terrorist ID to be deleted to favor people joining the underrepresented house unlawfulls?If unlawful factions would get off their rears and ask for a hostile rephack on the (independent) Pirate ID, that problem would solve itself in quite a hurry. Otherwise, if you have suggestions on how to make this ID a little less popular in respect to the local unlawful factions, I'm all ears. I'm no fan of the Pirate and Freelancer IDs.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Agmen of Eladesor - 05-14-2013
I'll just cover the two relevant ID's for my faction:
Quote:; dsy_license_gd_bh_grp
500644
NAME
Bounty Hunters Guild ID
500645
INFOCARD
Bounty Hunters Guild
The Bounty Hunters Guild is a well-established mercenary group who specialise in hunting criminals and terrorists. A large number of bounty hunters are ex-criminals. All unlawfuls treat the Bounty Hunters as enemies.
Pilot carrying this lawful ID is a Bounty Hunter, who:
- Can attack pirates and terrorists in self-defense, to protect an allied or neutral lawful ship, or in defense of corporate bases.
- Can fulfill lawful bounty and escort contracts against both lawful and unlawful targets.
- May treat trade vessels as combat targets in pursuit of a bounty or escort contract.
- Cannot use any transports with more than 4,300 cargo.
- Cannot ally with any unlawfuls.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
Allowed ships: Fighters, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats
Line 1 - sounds reasonable.
Line 2 - fits in with the RP and ties up that loose end regarding bounties from one house upon another house
Line 3 - 'in pursuit' - change that to 'when taking' or something similar, so it reduces the confusion
Lines 4-6 - again, sounds good. The Guild does sometimes work with, but never allies with, unlawfuls in pursuit of someone. (The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, but sometimes is one I don't shoot. Hey, Hessian, I won't shoot at you if you help me kill that Corsair, okay?)
Quote:; dsy_license_gd_bh_guardian
504080
NAME
Bounty Hunters Guild Core ID
504081
INFOCARD
Bounty Hunters Guild Core
The BHG Core is a paramilitary faction which developed from and is funded by the Bounty Hunters Guild. The Core focuses around acquiring and developing new (Nomad) technologies to strengthen the Bounty Hunters Guild. Their enemies are the Nomads, Wild and The Order. Core members are not mercenaries and may not hunt bounties.
Pilot carrying this lawful ID is a member of the BHG Core who:
- Can attack lawfuls, pirates and terrorists in self-defense, to protect an allied or neutral lawful ship, or in defense of bases of the same affiliation within and outside their Zone of Influence.
- Can hunt pirates and terrorists within their Zone of Influence.
- Can hunt ships belonging to houses or organisations considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence.
- Can hunt Wild, Nomad and Order ships.
- Can hunt vessels equipped with Nomad equipment.
- Can demand Alien Artifacts, Nomad equipment and remains, and destroy ships if they refuse to comply with contraband demands, refuse to cooperate or are affiliated with a house or organisation considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence.
- Cannot bring Cruisers or Battleships into any system containing a Jump Gate with the exception of Sigma-19, Sigma-17 and Nomad systems.
- Cannot use any transports with more than 4,300 cargo.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
Zone of Influence: Omegas, Omicrons
Allowed ships: Fighters, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers, Battleships
Nicely worded, with really only a couple of small points of that I'd like to see changed or clarified:
Line 4 / 5 - Can hunt Wild, Nomad, and Order ships anywhere. Can hunt vessels equipped with Nomad equipment anywhere. - or at least something from you that signifies that's you're understanding, as well, so there's no confusion.
That way if we get into a pursuit of a Nomad ship that takes us into house space, we're covered. (It does happen.) And then we have teamed up with members of the regular Guild in dealing with pirates while working our way back out of house space, which the ID does allow. (Not hunting bounties, simply helping defend allied shipping.)
Also clarification that bases of same affiliation means Guild or Core, since the two organizations are intertwined, which is how I take it. Sometimes we do have people from the Core head in to Sheffield or Deshima on escort missions.
Note that I have absolutely no issues whatsoever with the restrictions upon our larger caps, regardless of the screaming, ranting, or whining of other players. I do NOT want to see a revisit to the dark days of the DarkWing...
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Rodnas - 05-14-2013
Well, the Freelancer ID sure is a tough cookie, especially if you want to keep it within one ID, so i need some serious thoughts before sayingn anything...
But for the Piate ID, there is a very quick and dirty solution to the "i pew all" problem: How about Pirat IDed ships are only allowed to pirate transports and freighters and only for cargo?
It would be reasonable as these solo-operating pirates or small enough groups to not make up a real faction yet shouldn't be out for combat( it might damage their hardware after all- and without shipyards and so on replacements are tough to get).
With only hitting traders(and possible escorts) they try to scavange what they can carry- Evil Joe carries off a new TV,a surround systm and 5 new iNeuralNets in his his small snub, while Big old evil Joe and his gang rush off with a whole p-trans full of metal destined for that shady reseller at Trafalgar. No need to hassle with traceable ash or neural net date , right
This would limit the unlimited pirates to actually "pirat" not just ask everyone they want to shoot for 30 mil -and actually, if i ad any say in this cargo piracy should be much more common and prevalent over the cash piracy, even if that surely isn't a popular opinion.
Other than that: yes, unlawfull factions should deny their flagless competitors all docking rights...
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - AeternusDoleo - 05-15-2013
Denying the pirate ID the ability to demand credits is kind of silly. Denying it the ability to make demands off of non-transports as well I think. They are pirates: "Pay up or I shoot you" is kind of their motto. If we'd need to go deny pirates the ability to demand credits, that'd need to be done across the board. It is an idea, but... not for this thread I think. Because that changes the entire nature of lawful/unlawful interaction and solo piracy.