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+--- Thread: Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes (/showthread.php?tid=12474)
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - pbrione - 10-12-2008
Certainly lawful players should not treat certain jumpholes in dense asteroid/radiation fields as they would with jump gates, just to use as shortcuts between systems, as they should be using proper lanes and gates for most of the time. When, however, they are pursuing a criminal, it seems to me to be unrealistic that they should break off the pursuit just because the criminal is heading into an asteroid field towards a JH. I understand the point made about asteroid hazards to capships, and radiation damage to fighters, but the fact is that these actually do damage our ships when we use them, and so should act as a sufficient deterrant without imposing further RP restrictions.
For example, no large lawful capship would ever try and pursue a fleeing criminal into a dense asteroid field - and if they did, the criminal in a smaller ship would soon escape anyway. As for radiation fields, small police fighters may certainly think twice before going in, but if they were bold enough to risk it, then so be it. Their ships will be damaged and they may or may not make it out alive, but that is their initiative, though more cautious senior officers might well order them to call off the pursuit rather than take the risk. What I'm saying is that the lawfuls should make such judgements on a case by case basis (as official RP rules would be impossible to enforce anyway), as some JHs are clearly more well known and accessible than others, and some fields/nebulas more dangerous than others.
The 2 main examples you referred to were the Leeds smog clouds and the badlands. Of these, the badlands with their numerous hazards should certainly be enough to deter the majority of lawful ships - I doubt any Liberty capships have ever sucessfully pursued a half-decent pirate through to the JHs there. The smog clouds in Leeds, however, are not particularly corrosive, irradiatiated or containing debris, and so pose a fairly minimal navigational hazard to any ships, large or small. Perhaps lawfuls could not keep track of the constant shifts of JHs there, but it seems very reasonable RP-wise for them to pursue any criminals here, and they could call for allies to "head off" fleeing criminals simply based on their projected direction of travel, even if they did not have the exact coordinates of the JHs they were heading to.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Magoo! - 10-13-2008
In my opinion, its rubbish.
Essentially, its the lawfuls completely ignoring every last bit of their training saying, "DON'T FRIGGIN' GO HERE!" to go, "OHAI! *pew pew*! lwfulz ftw!"
If they've been trained to hard-corely in that JH's are so dangerous, they'd be satisfied knowing that the badguy is either halfway across Sirius in between stars, or dead.
The only people who should go into the Badlands for instance, are the odd group of Pirrahnas whose pilots are probably so broke and half-starved to death that if they don't manage to kill a Rogue and collect on him, it wont matter anyways.
In a nutshell?
Jump Holes - Unlawful
Jump Gates - Lawful
I say to the lawfuls, get over your obsession with PvP and RP. "ONOEZ! Dangerous JH! You win this round, Trebeck! Or do you? Oooahaha!"
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - MrCynical - 10-13-2008
I think the suggestion that, in-RP, the Liberty military wouldn't have thoroughly mapped the New York system isn't really sustainable. Substitute 'Liberty' and 'New York' for your house of choice. The 'jumpholes are dangerous' thing also strikes me as in-RP false. The part "Ageira Technologies advises against the use of jumpholes" shows that it's really just corporate FUD designed to protect their own product (the jumpgates).
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Tenacity - 10-13-2008
Another example - I had an LSF fighter (a few months back) pursue my transport ship all the way through one of the texas dark matter clouds. In RP... they would never go inside those clouds. There's even a rumor on beaumont of a Junker saying "I had this bounty hunter chasing me last week that drifted into the grande negra... I heard his screams as the radiation ate him alive."
Now, it's somewhat reasonable that unlawful ships, or larger ships (like transports/capships) would have enough radiation shielding to survive short trips into those areas, which is what I was counting on - but fighters definitely wouldnt, and with the scrap/debris inside the clouds a capship would have a hard time pursuing anyways.
The problem is that, with the way our ships and such have been balanced here, even the high radiation damage zones, or minefields, or volatile gas clouds, dont damage most ships enough to deter them - they ignore the danager in favor of pvp whoring.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Rudo - 10-13-2008
' Wrote:Another example - I had an LSF fighter (a few months back) pursue my transport ship all the way through one of the texas dark matter clouds. In RP... they would never go inside those clouds. There's even a rumor on beaumont of a Junker saying "I had this bounty hunter chasing me last week that drifted into the grande negra... I heard his screams as the radiation ate him alive."
Now, it's somewhat reasonable that unlawful ships, or larger ships (like transports/capships) would have enough radiation shielding to survive short trips into those areas, which is what I was counting on - but fighters definitely wouldnt, and with the scrap/debris inside the clouds a capship would have a hard time pursuing anyways.
The problem is that, with the way our ships and such have been balanced here, even the high radiation damage zones, or minefields, or volatile gas clouds, dont damage most ships enough to deter them - they ignore the danager in favor of pvp whoring.
Should have just parked in there if he was a fighter.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Grimtooth - 10-13-2008
Face it lawfuls can pretty much do whatever they want and there isn't anything the unlawful players can do about it except stop playing.
Last night is a perfect example. The DW bounty hunters and some LN/LPI players were camped in Texas cap whoring like there's no tomorrow blasting smugglers. So a few of us outcasts players decide to make a raid into Texas with some cap ships and some bombers and fighters to give the smugglers a chance to make their runs. We make it to Hamburg and the Admins contact the raiding party leader and tells him we are OoRP and must return to Alpha. Then tells us further we cannot take ANYTHING bigger than a bomber into Liberty space or basically anywhere unless we are fighting Corsairs in Eta or sigma 19/13. My opinion is this is a load of crap because as far as i have heard NO OTHER group has been restricted like this. Bounty hunters can cap Whore Alpha all they want as well as the CR if they choose to (i haven't seen them do it but they could) the LN, LPI and LSF can use all the caps they want to interdict smugglers but the outcasts are limited to fighters or bombers. I have seen Rhienland battle ships in sigma 13 as well as liberty caps and yet the outcasts are limited like this. Sorry but that just sucks. Oh and before the flames start the largest ship i have is a LR gunboat.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Nightmouse - 10-13-2008
' Wrote:Face it lawfuls can pretty much do whatever they want and there isn't anything the unlawful players can do about it except stop playing.
Last night is a perfect example. The DW bounty hunters and some LN/LPI players were camped in Texas cap whoring like there's no tomorrow blasting smugglers. So a few of us outcasts players decide to make a raid into Texas with some cap ships and some bombers and fighters to give the smugglers a chance to make their runs. We make it to Hamburg and the Admins contact the raiding party leader and tells him we are OoRP and must return to Alpha. Then tells us further we cannot take ANYTHING bigger than a bomber into Liberty space or basically anywhere unless we are fighting Corsairs in Eta or sigma 19/13. My opinion is this is a load of crap because as far as i have heard NO OTHER group has been restricted like this. Bounty hunters can cap Whore Alpha all they want as well as the CR if they choose to (i haven't seen them do it but they could) the LN, LPI and LSF can use all the caps they want to interdict smugglers but the outcasts are limited to fighters or bombers. I have seen Rhienland battle ships in sigma 13 as well as liberty caps and yet the outcasts are limited like this. Sorry but that just sucks. Oh and before the flames start the largest ship i have is a LR gunboat.
Well, I have to agree with you on this one, no, not the part about it being right for Outcasts to send an entire cap fleet to Liberty to protect some smugglers, but with the fact Bounty Hunters should have their caps restricted to the core systems (meaning no more BH Battleships sitting above Malta or Crete).
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Asymptotic - 10-13-2008
' Wrote:Face it lawfuls can pretty much do whatever they want and there isn't anything the unlawful players can do about it except stop playing.
Last night is a perfect example. The DW bounty hunters and some LN/LPI players were camped in Texas cap whoring like there's no tomorrow blasting smugglers. So a few of us outcasts players decide to make a raid into Texas with some cap ships and some bombers and fighters to give the smugglers a chance to make their runs. We make it to Hamburg and the Admins contact the raiding party leader and tells him we are OoRP and must return to Alpha. Then tells us further we cannot take ANYTHING bigger than a bomber into Liberty space or basically anywhere unless we are fighting Corsairs in Eta or sigma 19/13. My opinion is this is a load of crap because as far as i have heard NO OTHER group has been restricted like this. Bounty hunters can cap Whore Alpha all they want as well as the CR if they choose to (i haven't seen them do it but they could) the LN, LPI and LSF can use all the caps they want to interdict smugglers but the outcasts are limited to fighters or bombers. I have seen Rhienland battle ships in sigma 13 as well as liberty caps and yet the outcasts are limited like this. Sorry but that just sucks. Oh and before the flames start the largest ship i have is a LR gunboat.
trial by forum...
but I was there. complete horsesh*t.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Bad.Wolf - 10-14-2008
' Wrote:Well, I have to agree with you on this one, no, not the part about it being right for Outcasts to send an entire cap fleet to Liberty to protect some smugglers, but with the fact Bounty Hunters should have their caps restricted to the core systems (meaning no more BH Battleships sitting above Malta or Crete).
Agreed.
also its realy unfair, LN can do all they want..which is pretty much stupid. then the smugglers got no chance. hmm might be better if u restrict one Cap to a system(not involving Core worlds) but places like Manhattan is FULL of liberty navy, Its not the only system you got!
thats my word.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Robert.Fitzgerald - 10-14-2008
Quote:but with the fact Bounty Hunters should have their caps restricted to the core systems (meaning no more BH Battleships sitting above Malta or Crete).
Why should they be restricted to the houses? The Guild Core has little to no business in the Houses; those capitals were designed and built for the harsh environs of the Omicrons. They belong there, deal with them...