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+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=150497)
RE: Zoners - SMI-Great.Fox - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 07:55 PM)MotokoSusu Wrote: Fox did ask your group to push in my behalf for FR5's if I wanted FR5's I would have joined a faction that live by them and I think the afore mentioned godlike power is not the game play but the self incursion of CoF running things at least that is how i interpret it. I am sorry but this looks more and more like a attempt for a power grab it may not be now but later it will be perverted to it. "The greatest of storms ... are announce with the slightest of breeze"
No no it's alright. I've only been in Co leadership with Aazalot for about 2 months and was dealt with the issues from the Core off the bat so right now there was one incident with the idea to push an FR5 but after further review it was proved to be pointless. We wouldn't push for an FR5 unless it was ABSOLUTELY necessary nowadays.
(05-23-2017, 07:55 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Both you and Aazalot could make good use of a bump chat/thread, to be honest.
That's actually a good idea.
RE: Zoners - Arioch - 05-23-2017
Zoners can't have anything unifying.
Zoners can't establish a VERY simple set of rules for those who dock on FREEports, because that somehow goes against Zoners (Sorry, it goes against Zoner lore to establish a set of rules to protect those who go to a neutral freeport, like "Don't shoot around a freeport"?).
Zoners can't have a way to hold THEMSELVES accountable for going against Zoner lore (Neph registry).
Zoners can't make advances on their OWN lore due to mistakes by indie and official alike (Core conflict started by indies, at which point they were FR5'd for going against the ZOner ID and Lore, yet the CoF/officials are the bad guys for doing so).
Anything else I am missing? Just want to be clear what Zoners can't do and can do...
RE: Zoners - Vendetta - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 08:04 PM)Arioch Wrote: Zoners can't have anything unifying.
Zoners can't establish a VERY simple set of rules for those who dock on FREEports, because that somehow goes against Zoners (Sorry, it goes against Zoner lore to establish a set of rules to protect those who go to a neutral freeport, like "Don't shoot around a freeport"?).
Zoners can't have a way to hold THEMSELVES accountable for going against Zoner lore (Neph registry).
Zoners can't make advances on their OWN lore due to mistakes by indie and official alike (Core conflict started by indies, at which point they were FR5'd for going against the ZOner ID and Lore, yet the CoF/officials are the bad guys for doing so).
Anything else I am missing? Just want to be clear what Zoners can't do and can do...
They can't poison our water supply, burn our crops or deliver a plague upon our houses.
Sorry Zoners.
But no, realistically speaking from a lore standpoint, unifying to form an acting body for all Zoner stations kind of goes against the whole idea of wanting to shift away from House laws in order to have more freedom. Not every Zoner will agree that a confederacy is the ultimate approach to handle each problem, and there really should be exemptions to allow individual Freeports to govern themselves as an independent entity instead of a group or committee handling bulk decisions.
Instead when someone messes around at one station, a notice is sent to the others on a background channel saying "Hey, this guy/these guys are no good. Watch out for them."
RE: Zoners - Toris (Old Account) - 05-23-2017
@Vendetta The issue is that every single Freeport cannot have its own separate IFF. But if Zoners are up to FR5 a player, that goes way more against on who Zoners are - they are not one faction like Samura and Gateway. Banning people from Freeports cannot be in form of FR5, rather on KOS around the exact Freeport that player messed with - until the player goes to chat with Authorities. That's how Freeport RP should look like, but no. We cannot have nice things like that.
RE: Zoners - Arioch - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 08:19 PM)Vendetta Wrote: They can't poison our water supply, burn our crops or deliver a plague upon our houses.
Sorry Zoners.
But no, realistically speaking from a lore standpoint, unifying to form an acting body for all Zoner stations kind of goes against the whole idea of wanting to shift away from House laws in order to have more freedom. Not every Zoner will agree that a confederacy is the ultimate approach to handle each problem, and there really should be exemptions to allow individual Freeports to govern themselves as an independent entity instead of a group or committee handling bulk decisions.
Instead when someone messes around at one station, a notice is sent to the others on a background channel saying "Hey, this guy/these guys are no good. Watch out for them."
Why though? Where in the lore does it state that "Zoners left the corruption and unnecessary rules of the houses, and will never follow any rules and act in their own self interest". Guess what? It doesn't.
The goal of the CoF is NOT to unify all Zoners under a government. It's supposed to be a council where you have various heads of stations come together to talk about supplies needed, about situations at their own, and if anything affects Zoners as a whole or in more than one station, to chat about it. It's like Chieftains of Tribes coming together for a council to discuss outside issues that affect more than one tribe. Does that make them all unified? No. Does that mean there can't be internal disputes? No. Does that mean there is a Government trying to control them? No. It's a way for people to come together within the Zoners to discuss larger issues. From an ooRP perspective, it was a way to discuss FR5's, since if there are more than one official faction, you can't handle FR5's without the consent of all official factions. The CoF helped with that. Very rarely does the official factions/groups come together to even talk about it. The last one was for an indie Zoner who sided with Order and shot at Core (breaking both ooRP Zoner ID and inRP Zoner lore to not initiate hostilities).
So really, I fail to see how a council or gathering of Zoner heads equates going against their own lore. Nor do I understand how Zoners are being told from majority of people who DON'T play Zoners that they can't advance their own Lore. I'm sorry, but it is equally unreasonable to think that Zones wouldn't have SOME sort of unity beyond just the name when dealing with trade to other Zoner stations, and ways to ensure the peace is kept at Freeports for Zoners and non-zoners alike.
RE: Zoners - Arioch - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 08:25 PM)Birb Wrote: @Vendetta The issue is that every single Freeport cannot have its own separate IFF. But if Zoners are up to FR5 a player, that goes way more against on who Zoners are. Banning people from Freeports cannot be in form of FR5, rather on KOS around the exact Freeport that player messed with - until the player goes to chat with Authorities. That's how Freeport RP should look like, but no. We cannot have nice things like that.
Sorry, but if someone is at a Freeport shooting Zoners and is stating things like "Burn all Zoners?", you're saying no word would be spread to other Zoners stations to watch out and to make preparations against someone who is actively shooting/hunting Zoners?. Or if someone breaks the ID and shoot someone, thus starting a conflict that affects a whole region of space and not one station, that there shouldn't be consequences? Minor instances should be handled by that station and that station alone. But if it affects more than one, or is a threat to a larger group, It is not unreasonable for word to spread and precautions taken.
RE: Zoners - MotokoSusu - 05-23-2017
basic rules are fine for freeports like NFZ at 10k also I thought the freeports are just that freeports so all manner of person can use them sort of like a NO COLORS biker bar and no one is turned away. also how to you plan on enforcing if the Freeport NFZ is not uphold? Zoners? hmm Zoners policing. BUT no person is responsible for others action. they can think they are but they are not. If a Neph goes rouge it is not up to other zoners to hunt it down at the behest of the CoF that then become a quasi military action. I think I an qualified at recognizing a military action RL thank you . it is up to the house space that is having the problem. as far as the FP 11 fracas that is all on those parties. but it did invole some official faction support. I did not have any interest in involving myself or my faction in it because it was not something zoners would do. oh by the way Top Kick on the sarcastic remarks Arioch.
RE: Zoners - ABH Research Group - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 08:27 PM)Arioch Wrote: [quote='Vendetta' pid='1894041' dateline='1495567175']
They can't poison our water supply, burn our crops or deliver a plague upon our houses.
Sorry Zoners.
But no, realistically speaking from a lore standpoint, unifying to form an acting body for all Zoner stations kind of goes against the whole idea of wanting to shift away from House laws in order to have more freedom. Not every Zoner will agree that a confederacy is the ultimate approach to handle each problem, and there really should be exemptions to allow individual Freeports to govern themselves as an independent entity instead of a group or committee handling bulk decisions.
Instead when someone messes around at one station, a notice is sent to the others on a background channel saying "Hey, this guy/these guys are no good. Watch out for them."
Why though? Where in the lore does it state that "Zoners left the corruption and unnecessary rules of the houses, and will never follow any rules and act in their own self interest". Guess what? It doesn't.
The goal of the CoF is NOT to unify all Zoners under a government. It's supposed to be a council where you have various heads of stations come together to talk about supplies needed, about situations at their own, and if anything affects Zoners as a whole or in more than one station, to chat about it. [\quote]
I'm sorry, I kiND of stumbled onto thus thread, but if what you are saying is, that your just a bunch of talking heads to discuss Freeport sistuation. Then how is that you would be able to appoint people for this positions. Once you start taking the place of the idividual that says, "Hey, you run this freeport." You have become the governement of that organizaion. Just like a king putting knights or others in charge of lands in the medieval times.
RE: Zoners - Arioch - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 08:35 PM)MotokoSusu Wrote: basic rules are fine for freeports like NFZ at 10k also I thought the freeports are just that freeports so all manner of person can use them sort of like a NO COLORS biker bar and no one is turned away. also how to you plan on enforcing if the Freeport NFZ is not uphold? Zoners? hmm Zoners policing. BUT no person is responsible for others action. they can think they are but they are not. If a Neph goes rouge it is not up to other zoners to hunt it down at the behest of the CoF that then become a quasi military action. I think I an qualified at recognizing a military action RL thank you . it is up to the house space that is having the problem. as far as the FP 11 fracas that is all on those parties. but it did invole some official faction support. I did not have any interest in involving myself or my faction in it because it was not something zoners would do. oh by the way Top Kick on the sarcastic remarks Arioch.
There wasn't Zoner policing. No one said hunt them down. Bounties, sure. Which is totally within Zoner lore to do. As is cutting off their access to the station if they break the rules. How is that in any way going against Zoner lore? That right there is taking the non-hostile approach. I really fail to see where other Zoners hunt them down on behest of the CoF, which from my time in the CoF, never happened. Restrict access if you break rules = Acceptable. Zoners hunting down other Zoners = not acceptable. Bounties/getting allies to do stuff you can't or shouldn't = Acceptable.
And from my own involvement (You want logs? i'll dig them up) the Officials who were at Freeport 11 were defending it and pleading for people to stop shooting around it. If there were officials going straight into a fight with no RP asking for a ceasefire or for no hostilities, then yeah that's not something i'd have agreed with.
RE: Zoners - Shizune - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 08:41 PM)Arioch Wrote:(05-23-2017, 08:35 PM)MotokoSusu Wrote: basic rules are fine for freeports like NFZ at 10k also I thought the freeports are just that freeports so all manner of person can use them sort of like a NO COLORS biker bar and no one is turned away. also how to you plan on enforcing if the Freeport NFZ is not uphold? Zoners? hmm Zoners policing. BUT no person is responsible for others action. they can think they are but they are not. If a Neph goes rouge it is not up to other zoners to hunt it down at the behest of the CoF that then become a quasi military action. I think I an qualified at recognizing a military action RL thank you . it is up to the house space that is having the problem. as far as the FP 11 fracas that is all on those parties. but it did invole some official faction support. I did not have any interest in involving myself or my faction in it because it was not something zoners would do. oh by the way Top Kick on the sarcastic remarks Arioch.
There wasn't Zoner policing. No one said hunt them down. Bounties, sure. Which is totally within Zoner lore to do. As is cutting off their access to the station if they break the rules. How is that in any way going against Zoner lore? That right there is taking the non-hostile approach. I really fail to see where other Zoners hunt them down on behest of the CoF, which from my time in the CoF, never happened. Restrict access if you break rules = Acceptable. Zoners hunting down other Zoners = not acceptable. Bounties/getting allies to do stuff you can't or shouldn't = Acceptable.
And from my own involvement (You want logs? i'll dig them up) the Officials who were at Freeport 11 were defending it and pleading for people to stop shooting around it. If there were officials going straight into a fight with no RP asking for a ceasefire or for no hostilities, then yeah that's not something i'd have agreed with.
To back up Finn here, as well as the mentioned EMP prototype missile earlier. That was done by the Solar Runners, which is a indy Zoner group. We had both the CoF leaders okay, as well as the Core leaders okay to launch the EMP against Core. So before you jump on that bandwagon, the permissions from both Core, and CoF were gained, and an INDY Zoner group launched the EMP rocket.