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+--- Thread: "New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. (/showthread.php?tid=21052)
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Spear - 05-26-2009
I take no pleasure in thinking the council idea is just too complex, in fact I foresee a council sub section of the forum having more tumble weed than posts. Council's like the Zoners, Junkers and Corsairs could work. But for the military/police factions they are totally not required. Houses should have 1 Navy, 1 police force and 1 covert action group, and that's it. That's not a statement that you cannot be an indie, but the fact remains in RP the LN is the Liberty Navy, the RM is the Rhienland Military, the KNF are the Kusari Naval Forces and the BAF are the Bretonia Armed Forces.
If you cant accept that or work with the established military's, make your own unique RP and/or break away, or join those factions enemies. There are some great indies that work with the current house factions and they are appreciated, if you are a military indie that cant tow the military line then why are you RP'ing a military char?
Players should note the gap in covert action groups outside the LSF, there is room for official covert squads in all the houses bar Liberty, SAS anyone? There are plenty of open spaces for groups wishing to become official, why not fill these roles instead of making a duplicate faction that makes no sense in RP.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - pchwang - 05-26-2009
Quote:Players should note the gap in covert action groups outside the LSF, there is room for official covert squads in all the houses bar Liberty, SAS anyone? There are plenty of open spaces for groups wishing to become official, why not fill these roles instead of making a duplicate faction that makes no sense in RP.I concur.
Spear, you are just rolling these threads today.
And I would like to point out, that truly unique and interesting - though not complex at all - factions have been formed, and have their own niches, such as the Bretonian Privateers.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - hack - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:I take no pleasure in thinking the council idea is just too complex, in fact I foresee a council sub section of the forum having more tumble weed than posts. Council's like the Zoners, Junkers and Corsairs could work. But for the military/police factions they are totally not required. Houses should have 1 Navy, 1 police force and 1 covert action group, and that's it. That's not a statement that you cannot be an indie, but the fact remains in RP the LN is the Liberty Navy, the RM is the Rhienland Military, the KNF are the Kusari Naval Forces and the BAF are the Bretonia Armed Forces.
If you cant accept that or work with the established military's, make your own unique RP and/or break away, or join those factions enemies. There are some great indies that work with the current house factions and they are appreciated, if you are a military indie that cant tow the military line then why are you RP'ing a military char?
Players should note the gap in covert action groups outside the LSF, there is room for official covert squads in all the houses bar Liberty, SAS anyone? There are plenty of open spaces for groups wishing to become official, why not fill these roles instead of making a duplicate faction that makes no sense in RP.
I Believe that there are a few intel factions starting up in the other houses...
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Grumblesaur - 05-26-2009
The money has nothing to do with the Faction's RP unless it's a trading faction.
We should be focused on more written- and server-RP. If a faction can't show good RP, then it shouldn't be made official (or kept at all).
This sort of thing would have to be judged by members of the community and Admins alike.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Spear - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:I concur.
Spear, you are just rolling these threads today.
And I would like to point out, that truly unique and interesting - though not complex at all - factions have been formed, and have their own niches, such as the Bretonian Privateers.
Thanks, but I am concerned that a small downtime in the server and the Tenacity ban is being blown out of all proportion, now we are debating new rules when more rules is the last thing we need. There is nothing wrong with the current rules bar a slight intolerance regarding forum faction proposal rights!
How did we come to this? I feel like through boredom the community wishes to tear down something we have built up over years, the server is not broken, the community is not dying, and the problem at hand does not merit the debate we have. Anyone who has been here longer than me can remember far worse storm's, and that's all they were. We have all built something quite special here and a little appreciation of what Igiss has given us and what we have have should be shown.
I like that this debate has been civil compared to others of the past, and that to me shows that there really is not all that much wrong with Disco. Remember the fights of the past, we used to need asbestos suits to avoid burning.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Taffic - 05-26-2009
The biggest barrier to any of these proposed systems working is ego. Ego makes things personal, is counter-productive and its a destructive force in any game. Players need to be able to share their positive gaming experience with others and when this is not possible real world problems inevitably occur.
This is a game & games are supposed to be fun. I really dont think it matters which system is adopted, if basic respect is wanting.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Magoo! - 05-27-2009
Sorry about the eh, thread mix-up.:$
This was my intended destination.
Well... 8 Pages later, I'm not sure if my currency is obselete, but here it is. (I read through most of it, just not sure if this'll bear weight)
My hypothesis, based off of Korrd's lovely diagram.
-EDIT- Criminal Groups A-D are all under one faction. i.e. Rogues, Corsairs, etc.
![[Image: pictureh.png]](http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1319/pictureh.png)
SO! This way:
1. Blackbeard gets Redbeard's permission to plunder more loot to the south and east.
2. If Black Bart disagrees with the Rogue Council's decision, and no alternative can be reached, he starts busting caps in his ex-compatriots and could enforce his will on the others.
-i.e. If his side wins a series of engagements, his opinion on the issue at hand will be enforced.
3. The House authorities maintain authority (lets face it, if a government is going to change something affecting the little people, they'll do it). If there are multiple House authorities, a council can be made among them to decide how best to shaft the little people.
I am of the opinion that only unlawfuls should have councils in the traditional sense. All lawful forces basically act independantly. The Navy/Police/AF/Military act as the government and will do as they please, and the corporations that players run are in it to win it and no amount of bureaucratic paper-pushing will stop them.
Example time!
House Lawfuls:
The LN choose to outlaw the shipment of, say, Cobalt going hither and yon.
(IF there are multiple authorities present, a vote may be cast.)
Now, lets assume it is accepted and passed.
Lets say Interspace agrees to not ship Cobalt. Yay, for them! No piracy charges!
But now, (sad face :() Republican Shipping is being naughty, saying that Liberty can't affect the passage of Rheinland goods to say, Bretonia.
Liberty, of course, disagrees and starts shanking them in one way or another.
This then makes Bretonia grumpy and ticks Rheinland off even more.
Example 2
House Criminals:
Blackbeard, Redbeard, Black Bart, and Calico Jack are meeting in a dank, carved out, sorry excuse of a meeting room, drifting within some asteroid or another.
BB, RB, and BB squared all say 'Yay' to an Alliance with, say (hypothetical) the Hogosha.
Calico Jack strongly disagrees, having killed many-a gung ho, -san abusing, broken English speaking pilot in the past and having developed a prejudice.
Now, Calico Jack will not compromise.
So Calico Jack summons his crew of Motley, Stan, and the others whom he cannot remember.
Jack now busts caps in his enemies.
Jack pursuades his ex-comrades to see his side of the Hogosha story.
Jack secures his opinion.
The civil war is over.
Now, this upsets the Hogosha since their profits wont be tripling any time soon by smuggling the Deck, Kusari is upset at the Rogues (due to their screwed up relations with quasi-legal stereotypes, "HONOR!") and at Liberty for letting their problem spill into the Emperor/Shogun/Nobody really knows and its like arguing with Prea over Nomad origin.
THUS! The perfect system.
A real system.
Adieu.
NOW!
-Double Edit- "Now!" ? 0.o ... Not sure what I was thinking there...
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - pieguy259 - 05-27-2009
What if, instead of a 500mill fee, a faction applying for official status would simply need to have been around as an unofficial for, say, four months? Same length of time as officials take before they can buy a system. It'd still prevent most of the lolwut "kill all pieratz with oc dessyz and order gunses" applications, while making it easier on those of us who despise powertrading. It'd also free up money for factions to do useful things, like bounty boards and sign-on bonuses.
Eh? Eh?
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Tabris - 05-27-2009
I like Pieguy's idea, sweet, simple and effective. ^_^
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - farmerman - 05-27-2009
Various councils makes a lot of sense, especially with a step before official factionhood.
Perhaps make it so that the various members work together based on officially recognized groups. This would include official factions and unofficial groups that apply for a step 1 sort of deal. Then allow indies to apply to also become official voices. This gives official factions extra "power" in that they automatically get a voice. Then to make it more, give them veto power in the matter.
As to the creation part, allow anyone to post an idea for an official group, then work out a complex formula for determining how much of a deposit such would cost. Variables based on how many existing groups there are for that npc factions, how well it fits with the overall universe, size, etc. Then let them apply to be a recognized group. I imagine there'd be a bunch of these. Then have message dumps and recruitment and stuff threads in a section for those.
After some amount of time, then allow them to apply for official status. At that point, they'll have a track record, as it were, and if it's good, the admins could just insta-approve it (particularly in the case of unrepresented npc factions). If the idea wasn't completely solid or it was in a rather clustered area, then a feedback approval thread, like what exists now, could be created and discussions on how to improve and the merits of the faction could be discussed. My thoughts are primarily if they get to that point, they should be cleared toward officialdom pretty easily though, with only the heavily populated npc factions getting to that point (Corsairs, Outcasts, Zoners, etc)
To deal with situations like military factions, what about if the factions created systems to work with the indies? Step one would be ban non-faction individuals BUT work any indie group into the structure, regardless. The only requirement should be a logical RP background, though it would need to be followed. Even the long description of, say, "A battlegroup in Texas." could be acceptable - but given the brief description, they'd need to stick with Texas and adjoining systems, as an example. Then work all these groups into the overall ranking structure of the various house militaries.
To summarize: make official factiondom much easier, but require a several month trial period after being officially recognized. This would weed out most of the bad thoughts, or at least freeze them at a spot people can contact them if need be. The exception is for House Mlitaries, who I think should be more unilateral, but require them to introduce systems to integrate anyone willing to RP as that military in some manner.