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+--- Thread: The Rheinland Bomber (/showthread.php?tid=2148)
The Rheinland Bomber - Wolfpack98 - 01-09-2007
My opinion:
Reduce Bot/Bat capacity to support only *ONE* full refil or at least half.
Keep armor as is.
Move the RH Bomber from Yaren to a Rheinland Base (munich or Hamburg)
As it stands, the ship is not very agile, but has the teeth of a cruiser. Those bombers are supposed to be designed to take out battleships, but not that well.
I've been flying one for awhile.. they're good if you're gonna take out a cap ship, but for PvP against a fighter.. you better be damn good at it. I'm almost tempted to say "no pirating in bombers."
The Rheinland Bomber - JackDHuntr - 01-09-2007
' Wrote:My opinion:
Reduce Bot/Bat capacity to support only *ONE* full refil or at least half.
Keep armor as is.
Move the RH Bomber from Yaren to a Rheinland Base (munich or Hamburg)
As it stands, the ship is not very agile, but has the teeth of a cruiser. Those bombers are supposed to be designed to take out battleships, but not that well.
I've been flying one for awhile.. they're good if you're gonna take out a cap ship, but for PvP against a fighter.. you better be damn good at it. I'm almost tempted to say "no pirating in bombers."
I concur with what most people have stated, and for RP reasons Rheinland bomber should only be used for the Rheinland military, for miltiary purposes, i.e. piratiing would not be available for its use, (due to all unlawfuls should not have access to it), nor can Rhienland military use it for scanning cargo, but to be an agressor against military combat situations.
That being said, I humbly request Kasuri and Britonia and Liberty recieving ships for this purpose. If the pirates have a can support military engagements on unlawful side, then sure give them a pirate version of the bomber, but again can only be used for military engagements.
Just my rambling thoughts on keeping the game balance through good conduct. :yahoo:
The Rheinland Bomber - Dab - 01-09-2007
Okay, too many people and posts to respond to specific ones directly.
First to the guys posting alot before Korrd, Hoodlum, Marauder, and Nightfall started discussing it. The point of this is to bring the bomber down to a balanced size and power. Not nerf it to death and make it obsolete. Giving it any weapons under level 8 would make it QUITE obsolete.
Nightfall, Hood, Marauder, and Korrd. Good discussion. I agree with alot of it, especially putting the bomber in the RH Guard system, and the other hopefully-to-come bombers in their house's guard.
To Hoodlum; Yes, in general the next class' weaponry should be stronger than the classes below it. But the nova AMs on the bomber are, and should be an exception to this. They are specialized weaponry to take out capships. The problem is, they are too good against fighters. This is why they need a major speed reduction. You can track a BS pretty easily with novas going 300m/s instead of the current 700-800 it is. The smaller and more agile the ship, the harder to hit. Fighters would be able to dodge these much easier, as they should. Gunboats could even do it, allowing them to fulfill their role of fighter/bomber killing. Cruiser has a chance to take out the bomber while its dodging, while the BS attempts to use its massive firepower to take the bomber out before it is. The bomber should be able to kill the BS if the BS doesn't have good anti-fighter weaponry or support.
The weaponry does need a bit of a reduction though. Which is why I proposed that we change it to 4 9s and 2 10s. Even 6 9s works well. I think 6 9s would be best. BS shields should take a bit longer to take down than they are now against a bomber. As its defensive power is the only thing giving the BS a chance.
Olsav makes a point about the fact that putting it in the guard system would stop others from using it, even in RP fashion. Perhaps it would be better to have it on just a battleship. Maybe a well defended and hidden battleship. A new one that isn't already known about.
And Hoodlum, its not impossible.. Are you forgetting Leeds? My bomber took on 4-5 of the Phantoms. (Kane and I didn't touch each other in that one, which I believe is a good thing for me.. No offense but I think Kane is better then the rest of the Phantoms. Yes, even you Virus.:P)
But the fact is, I really SHOULDN'T have been able to do that. I shouldn't have been able to strip the shields as easily as I had, since I had the firepower of 2-3 heavily-weaponed fighters. The agility is fine. When I went after shields, you guys got quite alot of shots in on me, forcing me to break off. Its just that on those very brief runs, I did more damage than I had any right of doing.. Thus, bringing the too many high-power guns issue.
I don't think the hull should be taken down, and if so not under 19k. The bots/batts, however, should as Korrd said, be taken down by a pretty large amount.
The Rheinland Bomber - onca - 01-09-2007
' Wrote:.... I agree with alot of it, especially putting the bomber in the RH Guard system, and the other hopefully-to-come bombers in their house's guard....
Exactly what I was saying like 50 posts ago!:dry:
The trouble lies with the philosophy of a bomber -- its job is to take down a BS, and to do that it needs a huge mofo of an offense. At the same time it needs to be both agile and tough enough to dodge/take punishment to deliver the goods.
But of course this very thing makes it an uber-ship against smaller vessels, even fighters it you're not on the ball.
(BTW it's just wrong how gunboats can't take out bombers -- their job is to do just that, provide cover support for bigger capships. I always thought it stupid that gunboat guns were weaker than fighters, they might as well shoot marshmellows... although that's been addressed somewhat in 4.82.)
So here's a suggestion... get rid of the energy-powered nova cannon, or nerf it right down. Make only missile/torps that powerful. Then jack up the price of each ordinance, say $100k/torp. Now suddenly using a bomber becomes an expensive enterprise, and only used when absolutely needed. Ie, against capships and not everyday dogfighting.
Finally the notion that pirates use bombers to take out transports is ridiculous. With all that exploding powerful ordinance the cargo would surely be destroyed along with the ship. What pirate with half a brain will do that? It should be prohibited.
o.
The Rheinland Bomber - Dab - 01-09-2007
Onca, it was created to replace the Noca TORPEDO. Most of the capships have either immunities or advantages with torpedoes over the Vanilla BSs. Thats why the torpedo was changed to an energy gun. Its completely useless as a torpedo except against Vanilla BSs. And even then, the RH BS is 100% immune, and the Kusari BS has only one spot where it makes any damage.
The Rheinland Bomber - Korrd - 01-10-2007
RH bs can be hit. Is the Kusari one that is immune.
I agree. Leave hull as it is, but diminish the amount of bots so the ship can do a single full repair of the hull.
The Rheinland Bomber - onca - 01-10-2007
Oh, sorry mate didn't know that. See what happens when you miss 3 months of school?:crazy:
The Rheinland Bomber - Fellow Hoodlum - 01-10-2007
Dab, good points on the weps, though does it have the points for six level nines ? And six tizzies must be as
good as four coladas ... Lose the turrets too ?
Wolf I think has the quick fix, as has been suggested by a few of us aswell ... No pirating in the bugger, till Igiss
can make his magic wand do the balancing issues if necessary in his eyes.
And maybe two versions of the amc now are needed, one for bombers and one for fighters ...
Damn, we should be in the bugs and suggestions thread now with half of this.
Hoodlum
The Rheinland Bomber - Qunitinius~Verginix - 01-10-2007
Personaly, What I will be happy with, Is if it gets moved off of Yaren Base. Other stuff can be done to it. It can be nerfed Whatever, but as long as it gets off of that stupid Corsair Base! It doesn't belong there and thats half of the reason people are using it so much.
Verginix Out
The Rheinland Bomber - Dab - 01-10-2007
@Hoodlum; 4 of the level 9s would be the guns it already has. Right now is 2 level 9 turrets, and 4 level 10 gun. I'm proposing to change all guns and turrets to level 9s. So you have 6 level 9 guns.