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+--- Thread: Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing (/showthread.php?tid=70170)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - McNeo - 12-17-2011
A lot of the people complaining here have their interests because of SRPs or other things like this, such as SCRA or HF caps, or even an LN Osiris/Spyglass if they existed (which they dont).
Frankly, I'm seeing a lot of self-interest and "it doesn't make sense" without any reasons that can be justified objectively. Messes with your RP? What about your RP messing with the RP of others?
Here's the deal. I've a few SRP characters that are going to be hit by this too (which existed since 4.83) as well as a lot of characters with white cell tech besides, but that's a price worth paying. Why? Because an automated tech chart levels the playing field for everyone. In a time when SRPs are closed, a fact which people are kinda ignoring for the sake of their arguments, this means that new players do not have the same opportunities as older ones. Period.
It is unfair, for both factions and people who originated after SRPs to be denied the opportunities of those who came before they closed, only because of their time of origin was after a set date. It is inefficient, confusing and potentially open to abuse if a system of exceptions were to be created, as there are many that would need to be created.
Now Im no bastion of fairness or equal opportunity as people who know me will know. But what I can do is appreciate why such a system would be a good thing, and support it ideologically.
As I said to Joe, the only way I could support SRP stuff not receiving an auto-nerf, just like everybody else would anyway, would be if SRPs were reopened and stayed open forever. This is a lot of work, and something the admins would have to consider very carefully, as this kind of tech chart reduces their workload unless they choose to generate more.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - onca - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:A lot of the people complaining here have their interests because of SRPs or other things like this, such as SCRA or HF caps, or even an LN Osiris/Spyglass if they existed (which they dont).<snip>
/signed
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Blighter - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Those of you who are getting chills down your spine, should ask yourselves; "Why am I concerned about this? What affect does it have on me that makes me feel this way?"
And, for the record, this is another case of, what the community creates, it destroys. Think about why such a system is being set up by the dev team.
Because we've factions to run, in the HF's case a faction which is potentially going to be affected by this in a negative way, gameplay-wise, motivation-wise, balance-wise, while this is completely disregarding the faction's history, the faction's RP, the faction's gameplay as such, disregarding any sense things may make in our respective RPs, disregarding anything we may or may not say, because we wish for the things we worked for, the things we managed to preserve fully-functional throughout the years to keep functioning, so that we can keep doing what we keep doing without some arbitrary drawbacks imposed on us, without having to go through another .85 period where we've to fight for what we've already fought for time and time again, without having to make threads like those, without having to watch as some new system completely doesn't take into account all the stuff permitted in SRPs or here:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=32197
While this new system appears to not be taking that into account, which as such makes it also not take into account all the hours of effort or anything else which ANYONE who has something there invested into acquiring it. Some of the stuff there is ANCIENT and people have grown fond of their stuff, be it the Ven'Gyr, Havana, Spiridus, whatever it may be, and this new system is basically saying: Oh right, keep your toys.
So I'm personally like: Okay. But the system is like: I have to be honest with you, I broke your toys. A little. Or a little more elsewhere. - Very nice, very kind, I'm sure it helps especially the HF which 75% of the time has to go up against overwhelming odds and has to out-perform the entirety of Liberty's law that is present at the time of a raid, utilizing stuff we figured out how to use and fought for and used and use as good as we can, stuff we cannot replace 'less we're given a completely whole shipline featuring an additional Light Cruiser with a forward gun, a Medium 12-gun Destroyer, a Battlecruiser, and an additional Heavy Battleship as suitable replacements which can fill the same roles of our existing crap without any nerf. Very nice, very kind, make us and everyone else who'd have similar issues work again even more and get more ships into the mod by miracle. But that's not going to happen, or is it?
Of course such a system is being set up for a reason, and it may be a good reason, it may be a good-looking system, but I don't see it taking into account the HF's junk, the SCRA's Osirises, stuff like LWB, Bundies, etcetera. I only see nerf nerf nerf unless this or that, conditions that cannot be fulfilled (matching IFF on generic ID = no nerf) by a faction as a faction doesn't use a generic ID, a faction uses a faction ID, and where applicable a faction IFF.
Now you can say it ain't final, of course it isn't, but I'm here because of what I heard, what I got told, and I see a major amount of broken stuff that shouldn't be broken being around in the future. Okay, well, like I said earlier as the average Discovery player, I can wait and see, but as HC of the HF, I can't, and I have to do my best to ensure that said faction will have a minimum of issues as a result of the .86 transition, unlike what happened with the .85 one, issues which led to Zeus-knows how much frustration for people involved in fixing things so they could work as they were, for what reason?
Because a new system had been implemented.
A new system is about to be implemented again, and so far we've seen little to suggest that this time, it will be different than when .85 came around in regards to us, by the look of things, having to do essentially the same work like when .85 came, and we'll have to talk against walls again possibly to fix our stuff or get it fixed.
Why? What have we done wrong? What has the SCRA done wrong? What has the HF done wrong? What have the VR done wrong? I asked in my first post if our stuff really has to be broken. So does it have to be? Can like the Administration here answer this with a "yes" or "no"?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Hades - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:In all actuallity, I support this new system. This is, if you forget on the title, an RP server, not PvP. I'm actually going to look forward the fact that certain ships and tech mixes will lessen a pilots effectiveness, thus forcing one to adapt. If you can't, then either sell the ship or deal with it.PvP is a huge component of RP, it's not the anti-christ people like to make it out to be.
Seriously, I'm surprised there's actually a mod to play with how much people seem to needlessly hate flying and fighting in the damn game itself.
Also, this brings me back to another point I made in the 4.86 thread, none of this would be the huge perceived issue it is if all of the weapons were roughly equal in terms of stats, instead of the mess we have in-game now.
I also pretty much agree with everything Display Name has said.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - AeternusDoleo - 12-17-2011
Just to put some uneasiness to bed: Anything on the "Terrorist" or "SRP" ID's will fall outside this system entirely. Those can use anything in any combination - given that it's the admins who have decided the player could use a very off-standard combination in the first place. Anyone who has an SRP but failed to get the ID to go with it had better amend that soon.
Doesn't mean everyone and their mum will be getting an SRP or Terrorist ID though.
[Edit] @Below: Mandos and Reavers will get their own ID I'm told, so those can be set seperately. Not sure about the VR. Problem with the factions under generic IDs is generally that their politics tend to change over time, often quite rapidly - only allied factions would be considered for greens. This makes especially the Reavers difficult to set (because they switch sides so damned often).
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Thexare - 12-17-2011
This incredibly stupid idea actually was enough to bring me back for a post. Bravo.
So, for balance reasons, you're nerfing three official factions in their entirety, the caps of another one, and countless indies and unofficial characters. VR, the Mandalorians, the Reavers... all getting it right up the ass from this deal. Sure, they could use civilian guns. Or they could just fly real close and try to piss on the other guy's ship, it'd be about as effective.
All for the sake of a lazy solution to balance.
Screw you.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Pinko - 12-17-2011
Well, this does assure two things:
1) Military Factions will become the most powerful factions, which makes sense to me.
2) What nerfs -you- in this case also nerfs -everybody else-. It's not just -your- PvP ability which is redfuced, but -everyone's-.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Switchback - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:[Edit] @Below: Mandos and Reavers will get their own ID I'm told, so those can be set seperately. Not sure about the VR. Problem with the factions under generic IDs is generally that their politics tend to change over time, often quite rapidly - only allied factions would be considered for greens. This makes especially the Reavers difficult to set (because they switch sides so damned often).
VRs politics have not changed over our entire lifespan, and they sure as hell are not changing now, nor ever will. VRs unofficial faction status as of now is baring us from a ID, due to low member base.
No matter the official or unofficial nature of a faction, exceptions to your nerfing rule should exist. But, from what I have read, none do exist(or will exist ever).
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Zelot - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:A lot of the people complaining here have their interests because of SRPs or other things like this, such as SCRA or HF caps, or even an LN Osiris/Spyglass if they existed (which they dont).
Frankly, I'm seeing a lot of self-interest and "it doesn't make sense" without any reasons that can be justified objectively. Messes with your RP? What about your RP messing with the RP of others?
Here's the deal. I've a few SRP characters that are going to be hit by this too (which existed since 4.83) as well as a lot of characters with white cell tech besides, but that's a price worth paying. Why? Because an automated tech chart levels the playing field for everyone. In a time when SRPs are closed, a fact which people are kinda ignoring for the sake of their arguments, this means that new players do not have the same opportunities as older ones. Period.
It is unfair, for both factions and people who originated after SRPs to be denied the opportunities of those who came before they closed, only because of their time of origin was after a set date. It is inefficient, confusing and potentially open to abuse if a system of exceptions were to be created, as there are many that would need to be created.
Now Im no bastion of fairness or equal opportunity as people who know me will know. But what I can do is appreciate why such a system would be a good thing, and support it ideologically.
As I said to Joe, the only way I could support SRP stuff not receiving an auto-nerf, just like everybody else would anyway, would be if SRPs were reopened and stayed open forever. This is a lot of work, and something the admins would have to consider very carefully, as this kind of tech chart reduces their workload unless they choose to generate more.
This pretty much sums up my view on this subject.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Petitioner - 12-17-2011
Mercs getting their own IDs.
So, just because the admins don't want to deal with SRPs (sort of their job), and don't want factions that deserve particular tech probably less than others (pvp+rp=rp, rp-pvp=/=pvp but pvp=/=rp) (merc work isn't rp, but it's just pvp) they get their own ID to totally sidestep the devs' oh so carefully worded explanation to support their dumb system?