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+--- Thread: Iridium Mining and economy (/showthread.php?tid=117118)
RE: Iridium Mining and economy - Highland Laddie - 06-27-2014
Is Iridium purchasable anywhere outside of FP11? If not, then it's silly to treat it as a trade commodity. I'd agree with OP and just get rid of the buying point and treat it as a mining commodity.
This quasi status it currently has is mostly crap.
RE: Iridium Mining and economy - Acolyte - 06-27-2014
My only issue with this plan - although in general I like it - is the proliferation of indie Nomads with a bad habit of uncloak-insta-gibbing people.
... It's happened, like... Five times. I avoid Delta in anything bigger than a fighter these days. As such, I feel like the Iridium fields would be flooded with cloaked noms just waiting to ambush unsuspecting and comparatively helpless miners.
Even escorts would do little to negate this, as it's not difficult to focus on and sink a Hegemon; especially in an Assassin.
RE: Iridium Mining and economy - Mao - 06-27-2014
Yeah, I forgot the AI in my first post. I agree that they should get a good bonus as well. Seems inRP enough in my books.
(06-27-2014, 12:24 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: I distribute the bonuses with mainly gameplay thoughts in my head.I highlighted the points where I disagree and I'll discuss each of them:
Aim: make it a region that has many factions that do not like each other crammed in little space.
I am thinking about 1 mining area, 10 k wide. And everybody goes there.
- Zoners: x3 (the main natives that utilize their local resource. Gameplaywise the are restricted to < 3k in House space, where the best drop offs have to be bc of the necessity of centralising traffic)
- AI: x3 (if they are not developed into a full pew faction, which likely will not happen. With their little shipline and no real strength, I think this x3 could add something to make the faction more interesting)
- Order: x2,5 (like Mollys on Gold, mainly to keep them interested in the hub activity)
- BHG Core: x2,5 (like Mollys on Gold, mainly to keep them interested in the hub activity)
- OC: no, they have pirating, smuggling and Cardi as their perks
- Corsairs: no, they have pirating, smuggling and Artifacts as their perks
- Nomads: no, no interest in resources
- All specialised miner factions: x3 (they simply have the best equipment, skill, techology, knowledge, ships. They are the experts)
- All gas miners: no, they are not into solid rock mining.
Quote:Short range route:
Iridium to:
- Evora Shipyard, Omicron-100 (low profitability)
- Tripoli Shipyard, Omicron Gamma (low profitability)
- Livadia Shipyard, Omicron-74 (low profitability)
- Valetta Shipyard, Omicron Alpha (medium profitability)
- Alabama Shipyard, Omicron Rho (lowest profitability)
- the rest of the shipyards across Sirius should receive iridium with different prices, Gallia and Bretonia paying the highest prices for it
And yes, the commodity shouldn't be sold on FP 11.
Definitely "no!" for the many selling points in Omicrons, as inter-Omicron trading adds nothing but 5kers, afk-cruising from 1 hole to the other. less than 10 clicks per system, the rest is boring waiting time that you alt-tab for.
- All selling points need to be in civilized space.
- House main systems only, because they have bottlenecks surrounding them.
- Gamma and Alpha are also acceptable, as the same bottlenecks surround them, however lower price because the Omicron routes are much easier to fly. You will never meet anybody (beware the NPCs in Eta, though).
1. A bonus of 2.5 for the order is a bit too much considering their current state and the fact they aren't really known for their mining skills. Of course, some of the members may come from mining corporations but still, that bonus is too close to the max (x3 for zoner and AI). Maybe something like 1.5 - 2 could work better for them.
2. BHG Core with a mining bonus is a no in my books. Being on the lawful side, BHG has the means to buy the commodity. Now you will say that no lawful mining faction is in the Omicrons. True, but whoever mines the stuff sells it to the houses and from there it can get into BHG hands. So, no, BHG mining is a no-no.
3. All mining factions getting a max bonus? No. As much as I understand IMG sending a few ships in the area, trying to take advantage of the field, they're too "soft" for the Omicrons and this can be shown in a very small bonus (0.5 - 1). Other mining factions are even more "nationalized" as in they don't get out of their house space or bordering independent systems. So no BMM, Kruger and whatever other corporation in the Omicrons mining iridium.
4. Those short range routes would only be there to justify the need of said bases for the commodity and the profit would be minimal and in no way it could be a rival for the long routes, no matter how big your transport is. But, the factions would still get something from doing it and would also fit RP wise.
5. I understand your motives for wanting the commodity to be sold in house main systems but what about the other systems? Why do we have them if we center all the action in only a few bottlenecks?
RE: Iridium Mining and economy - Jack_Henderson - 06-28-2014
(06-27-2014, 10:41 PM)Mao Wrote: 1. A bonus of 2.5 for the order is a bit too much considering their current state and the fact they aren't really known for their mining skills. Of course, some of the members may come from mining corporations but still, that bonus is too close to the max (x3 for zoner and AI). Maybe something like 1.5 - 2 could work better for them.
2,5 is not a high bonus. Mining can be painfully slow on 2,5 (see gold ore). It can be so slow that you cannot even motivate people to try it. The 2,5 for "factions not specialized in mining" comes from Disco setting: Mollys mine gold at x2,5, IMG at x3, BMM at x4.
Quote:2. BHG Core with a mining bonus is a no in my books. Being on the lawful side, BHG has the means to buy the commodity. Now you will say that no lawful mining faction is in the Omicrons. True, but whoever mines the stuff sells it to the houses and from there it can get into BHG hands. So, no, BHG mining is a no-no.
I doubt BHG Core truly qualifies as "lawful" in a strict sense. For groups that live that far out, I think it would make sense to aim for self-sufficiency to get what they need themelves as well as they can. But sure... we can disagree here. From a gemplay perspective, it would be interesting if Core also was around. And I was proposing my draft with mainly gamplay reasons in my mind.
Quote:3. All mining factions getting a max bonus? No. As much as I understand IMG sending a few ships in the area, trying to take advantage of the field, they're too "soft" for the Omicrons and this can be shown in a very small bonus (0.5 - 1). Other mining factions are even more "nationalized" as in they don't get out of their house space or bordering independent systems. So no BMM, Kruger and whatever other corporation in the Omicrons mining iridium.
You lack understanding of the mining bonus system. 0,5 is not a small bonus. And 1 is not a bonus, either. These are multipliers. A rock that you shoot gives yoou (depending on the field) between 0 and 5 units. Let's assum eyou are lucky, you get 4. Then you multiply with your mining multiplier (like x3 for most mining commodities). You get 12 ore in your hold.
So your x0,5 multiplier would give you 2 ore. And your x1 would give you 4. The difference between a x2,5 and x3 is small already but it proved that it works. Therefore I see no reason not to use it, as the situation is very much the same as with Hessians mining diamonds, and Mollys mining gold.
Quote:4. Those short range routes would only be there to justify the need of said bases for the commodity and the profit would be minimal and in no way it could be a rival for the long routes, no matter how big your transport is. But, the factions would still get something from doing it and would also fit RP wise.
Short routes are bad for interaction. They cause spread and work against the needed streamlining of high-price goods. That's why I am against it. It's however a pure gameplay statement. Not an in roleplay necessity.
Quote:5. I understand your motives for wanting the commodity to be sold in house main systems but what about the other systems? Why do we have them if we center all the action in only a few bottlenecks?
We do not need most other systems except for adding space to move in. The systems that really matter are "system where goods come from (cheap buy-in)", "bottlenecks systems before selling point system", and "selling point system (high selling price)". Don't get me wrong... if we had 500 players, we could go for non-centralised routes. And we actually can, for small profit goods. But everything that is high-profit, high-risk... it needs to go through 5-7 systems, including 2 bottlenecks in an area that has a chance of interaction. Just my opinion, ofc.
RE: Iridium Mining and economy - Thyrzul - 06-28-2014
(06-27-2014, 07:36 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Is Iridium purchasable anywhere outside of FP11?
Yes.
(06-27-2014, 10:26 PM)Acolyte Wrote: it's not difficult to focus on and sink a Hegemon
Don't mine in Hegemon?
(06-28-2014, 12:31 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Therefore I see no reason not to use it, as the situation is very much the same as with Hessians mining diamonds, and Mollys mining gold.
Same logic could be applied in the opposite way, seeing no reason to use it, as the situation is very much the same as with Hessians mining gold, and Mollys mining diamonds. Or do these factions have their bonuses on minerals they naturally don't even get to too?
(06-28-2014, 12:31 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Short routes are bad for interaction. They cause spread and work against the needed streamlining of high-price goods. That's why I am against it. It's however a pure gameplay statement. Not an in roleplay necessity.
From what I get from comments above, said short routes spanning the 'Microns are pretty much to create opportunities for interaction in the 'Microns. How can that be bad? By drawing traffic away from house space?
(06-28-2014, 12:31 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: The systems that really matter are "system where goods come from (cheap buy-in)", "bottlenecks systems before selling point system", and "selling point system (high selling price)". Don't get me wrong... if we had 500 players, we could go for non-centralised routes. And we actually can, for small profit goods. But everything that is high-profit, high-risk... it needs to go through 5-7 systems, including 2 bottlenecks in an area that has a chance of interaction. Just my opinion, ofc.
You don't have to have all buy points restricted to house space in order to create traffic through bottlenecks, all you have to do is to set up a buy point on the opposite side of a bottleneck. A commodity from Kusari can have its best buy point in Omega-3 too instead of New London, you'll have to get through California and Manchester anyways. Plus Cambridge, a potential bottleneck you wouldn't even touch if you'd only go to NL. Either that way, or through Rheinland, where Sigma-13, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and Omega-7 can be good enough bottlenecks.