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+--- Thread: Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes (/showthread.php?tid=12474)
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - sn!p3r - 10-14-2008
' Wrote:In RP... they would never go inside those clouds.
And you know this.. how? Very interested on how you know all of this. Chasing you was all inrp, therefore that statement is void. Really getting tired of people dictating everyone's roleplay.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - monsterlancer - 10-14-2008
' Wrote:Another example - I had an LSF fighter (a few months back) pursue my transport ship all the way through one of the texas dark matter clouds. In RP... they would never go inside those clouds. There's even a rumor on beaumont of a Junker saying "I had this bounty hunter chasing me last week that drifted into the grande negra... I heard his screams as the radiation ate him alive."
Now, it's somewhat reasonable that unlawful ships, or larger ships (like transports/capships) would have enough radiation shielding to survive short trips into those areas, which is what I was counting on - but fighters definitely wouldnt, and with the scrap/debris inside the clouds a capship would have a hard time pursuing anyways.
The problem is that, with the way our ships and such have been balanced here, even the high radiation damage zones, or minefields, or volatile gas clouds, dont damage most ships enough to deter them - they ignore the danager in favor of pvp whoring.
On my char I figure that if I have you on cargo scan range but no more than 3.5k, I will continue prusit. Beyond that range, I'll break off and claim scanner interferance.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Kell - 10-14-2008
point is a lawful is selfish and wants to live clouds are for hiding thus bases are there for the sake of rp bases cant be destroyed
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Kell - 10-14-2008
Clarifying my last post (made it on my PSP in the early morning)
The point of a game isn't realism (then they would suck) its to create a sandbox environment (as is the case in Freelancer) and a set of pathways. This server *wants* balance, trust me. Lawfuls should avoid rushing into nebulas for the sake of the "kill". A police team doesn't RUSH into an unlit building a robber just ran into. They wait for backup. As is the sake for the badlands and other places, theres backup WAITING. Also, the Asteroids of the Badlands are an unknown material, likely impervious to everything humanity has. So Buffalo is fine, it'd have to be boarded, and with outcast pilots in the area, it wont be.
Is the lawful always going to get the kill? No. If the pirate goes to the nebula/dust cloud whatever, the Lawful guy should break off. In roleplay, this is called surviving. Theres a lot less trained lawfuls (especially in Bretonia and Kusari, now) than there are crazy pirates. The pirate gets away, the lawful protects another person.
In the case of the unlawfuls, AVOID battleships. (WTF is up with fights near the missouri/Isis/etc) Thats a STRONGHOLD. You can't *dent* it. Its obviously mounted with armor made for far stronger than ANYTHING you have.
Same for lawfuls: Don't dive into a system with enemy weapon platforms. You die.
Realism. A pirate survives on cruise engines. Thats why their bases buy H-fuel (hello, an idea for illegal but still legal trading) and basic supplies. They don't have the luxury of lanes. They hack lanes and take loot and run. And as a pirate (now I'm saying Pirate in the I want loot and you've got it now sense) the idea is to get supplies, make a dent and live. Its fun, honestly. But its far over-done in New york. (Honestly, when the Navy is ENTIRELY in New York *just* because theres so many smugglers/pirates about, its a mess.) Smugglers need to be docking at Rochester and buffalo, not Manhattan. Huge TRANSPORTS (Ex: Trains and above) carrying huge loads of artifacts and cardimine, is in my opinion a bit oorp if they're docking with manhattan. (hello, mooring system, you don't go down to the planet :o )
Cops should play cops. You don't send the tank in to a suburban neighborhood for the crack dealer (ties into don't send a capital into the badlands.) and you generally don't go anywhere where you've lost a patrol (hello patrol 27).
Whereas a criminal isn't going out into broad daylight to mug you (hello, holding up the mini-mart next to the police station) Be smart. Be patient. Both sides of the fence are *fun* but they require a *lot* of patience.
Oh, One last opinion of mine: Pirating for the player, is NOT a way to get rich. you *dont* get rich off of a few lanehacks. Policemen also, don't need to fine huge amounts. A smuggler either drops it or gets blown up. His pod will be sent to the nearest base from his ship. (don't powergame the whole "I have your escape pod" thats meta-ing the victim and wrong. Also: Realism such as going to jail etc, sucks. Bigtime. )
All in all, people will find their way to play. Its fun now (if a bit one-sided at hours) and will continue being fun.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Wolfspirit - 10-15-2008
If we se the SP as basic, there is numerous example how lawfuls know and use Jump Holes. Some example was here (Lawful SP characters like Tobias, Juni etc. knew Jump Holes, Jump Hole location information buyable in bars by lawfuls) I say another one. Just think the Rheinland Military. They usually around Jump Holes, example in Bretonia, you met with them, 2 fighters in Cambridge when you jump from Omega-3 (which JH showed by a lawful character). In cambridge forward Leeds JH was a Rheinland BS with escort fighters. In Dublin forward Leeds JH another Rheinladers waited you. And if Rheinland Military knew the JHs in Bretonia I think they knew in other Major House too (thinking California when they attack the research station, Magellan system, Tohoku etc.) Somehow they enter there and I dont think they used Jump Gates. And dont forget the Rheinladers wreck close to New Berlin Jump Hole in Sigma 13 what remained from 80 years war, why they are there. Possible they used the Jump Hole, like the Rheinlanders who attack there in SP with Cap ships, not far from the JH. And I talked only Rheinland Military yet in the examples. When you accept missions in Chugoku, you need to kill Kusary Naval Forces who in there. How can they enter there? Only if they use Jump Hole. I can say more example too but these enough I guess.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Tenacity - 10-15-2008
in the SP campaign, those rheinlanders (and occasionally the liberty navy/lsf) had access to knowledge from the nomads. It's been speculated that the jump holes were originally "jump gates" made by the daam k'vosh for nomad use, and to control where they can and cant go.
Something else to look at here - throughout the entire sp campaign, you constantly here "Phase aligned" when referring to jump holes. If a jump hole is phase aligned, you can use it, if it isnt phase aligned, it's not stable enough to travel through. The jump holes seemed to go in and out of phase at random intervals - either based on the location of each system during galactic movement (the two jump holes need to be close to each other for phase alignment, most likely, and the whole galaxy/universe is constantly spinning/orbiting), or based on a 'clock' system used by nomads/k'vosh.
It takes several minutes to scan a jump hole to see if it's aligned or not, according to juni/tobias/others during the sp campaign. Chances are, jump holes that are frequently used by pirates or smugglers are scanned constantly by nearby unlawful bases - so the unlawful knows if the jump hole is phase aligned, while the lawfuls dont because they arent constantly monitoring it. An lawful wouldnt risk barelling into a jump hole when it could very well kill him, and he has no way of telling if the unlawful was destroyed by the jump or not. To a lawful, an running unlawful would be desperate enough to risk jumping through an unstable jump hole rather than be caught and imprisoned.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - hack - 10-15-2008
' Wrote:Clarifying my last post (made it on my PSP in the early morning)
The point of a game isn't realism (then they would suck) its to create a sandbox environment (as is the case in Freelancer) and a set of pathways. This server *wants* balance, trust me. Lawfuls should avoid rushing into nebulas for the sake of the "kill". A police team doesn't RUSH into an unlit building a robber just ran into. They wait for backup. As is the sake for the badlands and other places, theres backup WAITING. Also, the Asteroids of the Badlands are an unknown material, likely impervious to everything humanity has. So Buffalo is fine, it'd have to be boarded, and with outcast pilots in the area, it wont be.
Is the lawful always going to get the kill? No. If the pirate goes to the nebula/dust cloud whatever, the Lawful guy should break off. In roleplay, this is called surviving. Theres a lot less trained lawfuls (especially in Bretonia and Kusari, now) than there are crazy pirates. The pirate gets away, the lawful protects another person.
In the case of the unlawfuls, AVOID battleships. (WTF is up with fights near the missouri/Isis/etc) Thats a STRONGHOLD. You can't *dent* it. Its obviously mounted with armor made for far stronger than ANYTHING you have.
Same for lawfuls: Don't dive into a system with enemy weapon platforms. You die.
Realism. A pirate survives on cruise engines. Thats why their bases buy H-fuel (hello, an idea for illegal but still legal trading) and basic supplies. They don't have the luxury of lanes. They hack lanes and take loot and run. And as a pirate (now I'm saying Pirate in the I want loot and you've got it now sense) the idea is to get supplies, make a dent and live. Its fun, honestly. But its far over-done in New york. (Honestly, when the Navy is ENTIRELY in New York *just* because theres so many smugglers/pirates about, its a mess.) Smugglers need to be docking at Rochester and buffalo, not Manhattan. Huge TRANSPORTS (Ex: Trains and above) carrying huge loads of artifacts and cardimine, is in my opinion a bit oorp if they're docking with manhattan. (hello, mooring system, you don't go down to the planet :o )
Cops should play cops. You don't send the tank in to a suburban neighborhood for the crack dealer (ties into don't send a capital into the badlands.) and you generally don't go anywhere where you've lost a patrol (hello patrol 27).
Whereas a criminal isn't going out into broad daylight to mug you (hello, holding up the mini-mart next to the police station) Be smart. Be patient. Both sides of the fence are *fun* but they require a *lot* of patience.
Oh, One last opinion of mine: Pirating for the player, is NOT a way to get rich. you *dont* get rich off of a few lanehacks. Policemen also, don't need to fine huge amounts. A smuggler either drops it or gets blown up. His pod will be sent to the nearest base from his ship. (don't powergame the whole "I have your escape pod" thats meta-ing the victim and wrong. Also: Realism such as going to jail etc, sucks. Bigtime. )
All in all, people will find their way to play. Its fun now (if a bit one-sided at hours) and will continue being fun.
/signed
Sounds good to me, and very in RP.
My 2 centagos....
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Magoo! - 10-15-2008
Me Wrote:If they've been trained to hard-corely in that JH's are so dangerous, they'd be satisfied knowing that the badguy is either halfway across Sirius in between stars, or dead.
Tenacity Wrote:...and he has no way of telling if the unlawful was destroyed by the jump or not.
Mmmm... Indeed.
On a seperate note, since jumpholes are so frequently used by smugglers/pirates, its likely that it'd throw the stability of the JH out of whack. Adding to the logic that a lawful wouldn't pursue... But hey, what do I know? Well... Probably some things I wish I didn't, but anyways.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - jimmy Patterson - 10-15-2008
i voted now anyone should use them but ONLY if say bounty hunters tip them off dont say its oorp and dont worrying about destroyoing pirate bases if liberty for example did that whats the point of keeping such a large naval force
PIRACY IS A NESSARY EVIL
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - MrCynical - 10-15-2008
In doing this we have to balance what would happen in RP and what the Freelancer engine is capable of. So for example the undefended Destroyer sitting within sensor range of an NY tradelane would be obliterated, as (eventually) would Buffalo. The Freelancer engine doesn't have base destruction, and therefore we have to adjust RP to allow for a fun game all round. It's acceptable for lawfuls to use JHs (they don't have codes after all), and for unlawfuls to use TLs (this happened in SP remember until the TLs were disrupted), but unlawfuls shouldn't use JGs (except ones operated by a neutral group like GMG) and lawfuls shouldn't camp Rochester and the like.