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+--- Thread: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 (/showthread.php?tid=151217)
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Epo - 06-20-2017
At first I agree with most what @Karst said. And I say this as a both pirate and trader. Why would a trader even bother interacting when he's lost from the very beginning?
Now a bit of offtopic:
The reason why, in my eyes, piracy has became less and less popular over last *years* / *months* is the gap between piracy/trading profits. I used to fly with a group of 2-3 people on bombers back in 2015. Why? Because we had fun, chatting with each other for 30 mins / a hour or two before a single or two traders finally arrived at the scene. It was back when 2 mil was the most common pirate demand, well good lost and forgiven times, I'd say. We had fun, but yeah, fun, piracy was done when we could just hang around for the fun itself, as monetary benefit was near to none. I can also say that people had quite different way of approaching others back then. There was more respect and less salt and it's the sad truth.
What could make piracy more appealing is NPC trading convoys with credit cards / something really profitable. Pirate would simply shoot them while waiting for players. It would still be less than profit of a pure powertrading 5ker / proper capship missions, but it wouldn't be so influenced by another player. After all, piracy might lead to ruining someone else's day. And don't tell me about negotiations. I've played long enough to see people giving no damn about RP and simply willing to poof you down. Why? As simple as that, statistic trader is an armorless transport which can be shot down in no time by a single bomber. The more friends you get, the faster it goes. An inner, unstoppable starve for blue color floating on screen. And it was the simplest way to actually get a blue.
tl : dr To ones complaing about piracy being ((( :
Make piracy more appealing by adding credit cards to npc convoys, not by making traders pvp dead at the very 10milordai ==> Pirate gets money & trader has some reasons to interact with them as it wouldn't be as harsh.
I fail to see valid points behind this change, apart from reducing the amount of paperwork.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - sindroms - 06-20-2017
Read the rules.
You cannot ''attack'' (not destroy) a transport without making a demand. Just having a guy shooting a transport's shield to make it a PVP situation will make the attacker's equipment fall off, probably in Bastille. PVP will result if the trader declines the demand. Demands must be kept reasonable - there is no way the player can bait them into PVP with unreasonable demands and if they try to, their ship will be deleted by us.
Where exactly is the issue here.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Shiki - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 07:45 PM)sindroms Wrote: Read the rules.
You cannot ''attack'' (not destroy) a transport without making a demand. Just having a guy shooting a transport's shield to make it a PVP situation will make the attacker's equipment fall off, probably in Bastille. PVP will result if the trader declines the demand. Demands must be kept reasonable - there is no way the player can bait them into PVP with unreasonable demands and if they try to, their ship will be deleted by us.
Where exactly is the issue here.
Issue is that traders don't like to pay to pirates or hire escorts. This is all what this drama about. They assume they don't pay to pirate and don't have escorts automatically... And now they can't have powertrading rule exception, so it's a huge mental pain for some.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Sombs - 06-20-2017
Not that it is really related to the topic, but those guys who constantly frown upon traders without escorts should log their freelancers instead of waiting for raids or spending hours in conn. Finding freelancers for hire is impossible if you're not sitting at Trenton until one guys shows up.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Shiki - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 07:54 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Not that it is really related to the topic, but those guys who constantly frown upon traders without escorts should log their freelancers instead of waiting for raids or spending hours in conn. Finding freelancers for hire is impossible if you're not sitting at Trenton until one guys shows up.
There was no escorts, because there was no demand for them. Kinda obvious.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - PRJKTLRD - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 07:49 PM)Sici Wrote:(06-20-2017, 07:45 PM)sindroms Wrote: Read the rules.
You cannot ''attack'' (not destroy) a transport without making a demand. Just having a guy shooting a transport's shield to make it a PVP situation will make the attacker's equipment fall off, probably in Bastille. PVP will result if the trader declines the demand. Demands must be kept reasonable - there is no way the player can bait them into PVP with unreasonable demands and if they try to, their ship will be deleted by us.
Where exactly is the issue here.
Issue is that traders don't like to pay to pirates or hire escorts. This is all what this drama about. They assume they don't pay to pirate and don't have escorts automatically... And now they can't have powertrading rule exception, so it's a huge mental pain for some.
+1
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Jack_Henderson - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 07:45 PM)sindroms Wrote: Read the rules.
You cannot ''attack'' (not destroy) a transport without making a demand. Just having a guy shooting a transport's shield to make it a PVP situation will make the attacker's equipment fall off, probably in Bastille. PVP will result if the trader declines the demand. Demands must be kept reasonable - there is no way the player can bait them into PVP with unreasonable demands and if they try to, their ship will be deleted by us.
Where exactly is the issue here.
The issue is this:
You removed the only win condition for a transport.
Just look at what trader-pirate interaction looks like:
Pirate catches transport...
a) Transport pays. Pirate wins. Transport loses.
b) Transport dies. Pirate wins. Transport loses.
c) Transport makes it to base =>Transport loses. Pirate wins.
b) Transport dies. Pirate wins. Transport loses.
c) Transport makes it to base =>Transport loses. Pirate wins.
In the past, 1 out of 3 outcomes was your "win condition".
You made it to base under fire, you were not dead.
Now?
I mean, literally every encounter will end in you losing.
The logical consequence:
=> traders will avoid any interaction.
=> More metagaming. '
=> More player list use.
=> More off-plane flying.
=> And less interaction.
=> More metagaming. '
=> More player list use.
=> More off-plane flying.
=> And less interaction.
____
The "always dead for 2h even when killers logged off" has the same consequence. Punishment is harder for the loser. Therefore those who can expect to lose will avoid the situation. => less interaction.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Shiki - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 08:09 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:(06-20-2017, 07:45 PM)sindroms Wrote: Read the rules.
You cannot ''attack'' (not destroy) a transport without making a demand. Just having a guy shooting a transport's shield to make it a PVP situation will make the attacker's equipment fall off, probably in Bastille. PVP will result if the trader declines the demand. Demands must be kept reasonable - there is no way the player can bait them into PVP with unreasonable demands and if they try to, their ship will be deleted by us.
Where exactly is the issue here.
The issue is this:
You removed the only win condition for a transport.
Just look at what trader-pirate interaction looks like:
Pirate catches transport...
a) Transport pays. Pirate wins. Transport loses.
b) Transport dies. Pirate wins. Transport loses.
c) Transport makes it to base =>Transport loses. Pirate wins.
In the past, 1 out of 3 outcomes was your "win condition".
Now?
I mean, literally every encounter will end in you losing.
=> The logical consequence: traders will avoid any interaction. More metagaming. More player list use. More off-plane flying. And less interaction.
____
The "always dead for 2h even when killers logged off" has the same consequence. Punishment is harder for the loser. Therefore those who cna expect to lose will avoid the situation. => less interaction.
Actually bother to do RP with local lawfuls and freelancers and win. Since you fly in Kusari and Rheinland, perfect chance to help KSP and RFP to gain activity.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Jack_Henderson - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 08:11 PM)Sici Wrote: Actually bother to do RP with local lawfuls and freelancers and win. Since you fly in Kusari and Rheinland, perfect chance to help KSP and RFP to gain activity.
Good joke.
30 players.
If you do not bring your own escort, there is none.
If you are not well-connected, there is none.
And: It also leads to no interaction.
Escort sees pirates.
Transports avoid interaction.
=> less action. Even with escorts.
Because now, not even a strong convoy would fight a pirate. Because 1 or 2 or even more (he could just down everybody's shields once and screen it) would always end pvp dead and would not be able to continue in the cooperative action. Some people actually like playing as a team.
RE: Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3 - Shiki - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 08:16 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:(06-20-2017, 08:11 PM)Sici Wrote: Actually bother to do RP with local lawfuls and freelancers and win. Since you fly in Kusari and Rheinland, perfect chance to help KSP and RFP to gain activity.
Good joke.
30 players.
Now stop right there.
Pirates at 30 players is even better joke.