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+--- Thread: Let's talk Gaians (/showthread.php?tid=19136)
Let's talk Gaians - Benjamin - 04-12-2009
Gaians wanting to leave dead planets alone is totally logically consistent with their other beliefs, from what I can gather. They're not about preserving life, but preserving nature. If 'nature' created a dead rock, then that's how it should be. That's totally consistent with leaving Gaia alone for the same reasons.
As for Gaians-Kusari thing:
Yeah I know there's a bunch of RP for it, but for me that's totally irrelevant. A lot of people dislike it, me included, but that's just our opinion. The problem comes from the Gaians trying to be two things at once, and it's not an opinion that that can't work. The corsair alliance is just the same. It was raised in that other thread too. Basically, an alliance with these groups would cause Gaia to lose all public sympathy, ties with the Green Front, and basically all 'legitimacy' about being a political activist group who use violent methods. They become pirates. They might talk about nature before they attack, but no one is listening any more.
For me, I would prefer the unallied way, but either route is fine. It should be up to the Gaian players themselves, in my opinion. But you can't have your cake and eat it. I heard talk of an inRP civil war to reflect the current dichotomy in the Gaian ranks, and I think that would be a very cool way to solve it, rather than just some weird 'retcon'. But I would not be happy with some kind of half-measure or no action, that leaves them allied with Kusari/Corsairs and still in lore retaining public support. Because that just would not happen, and it would be bad, one-sided writing to make it so.
Let's talk Gaians - farmerman - 04-12-2009
In regard to Kusari diplomacy, I definitely support the Gaians being hostile to all governments. I think if they were hostile to the KNF, regardless of their other dealings, they could retain support. And then lower Corsairs to neutral or unfriendly, though doing that and then having some rp between factions where there is work back towards allied would be neat. You know, the Gaians giving them food and helping with that sort of thing in order to try and get the Corsairs away from piracy and such.
Let's talk Gaians - Hawkwings - 04-12-2009
The planned diplomacy for the Gaians was stated earlier: going to unfriendly/hostile with the Corsairs. If they then went unfriendly to hostile with all the Kusari factions as well, where would that leave them? That's right, no allies, not the greatest situation to be in. Well then, you might say, the Xenos have no allies either. Except that in their RP, they do, and they're secretly funded and supported by other groups.
But if "a bunch of RP" is totally irrelevant for you and others, then what's the point of even doing any RP at all? Why not just play vanilla factions straight vanilla? RP allows development, and without development, you have a dry dead story. It's easy for big factions and government entity players, since they have admin-decreed story updates and changes, but for the little factions, they have to write it themselves, or be bored to tears playing the same thing without any change.
Let's talk Gaians - Benjamin - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:The planned diplomacy for the Gaians was stated earlier: going to unfriendly/hostile with the Corsairs. If they then went unfriendly to hostile with all the Kusari factions as well, where would that leave them? That's right, no allies, not the greatest situation to be in. Well then, you might say, the Xenos have no allies either. Except that in their RP, they do, and they're secretly funded and supported by other groups.
But if "a bunch of RP" is totally irrelevant for you and others, then what's the point of even doing any RP at all? Why not just play vanilla factions straight vanilla? RP allows development, and without development, you have a dry dead story. It's easy for big factions and government entity players, since they have admin-decreed story updates and changes, but for the little factions, they have to write it themselves, or be bored to tears playing the same thing without any change.
Yeah and in RP Gaians have their allies in the Green Front, which, including sympathisers, is a whole lot of Bretonian citizens.
All I said is, if they want to have their story updates and changes, then they need to follow through and take the bad with the good. Having an alliance with the Green Front and having public sympathy, and an alliance with Farmer's Alliance, Hogosha or lawful Kusarians (don't know the full extent of Gaians alliances, not saying you're fully allied with all of these or whatever) makes literally no sense and is something I can't swallow.
Let's talk Gaians - Marburg - 04-12-2009
I will never understand why people would see Gaians as religious extremeists. In order to be religious, a religion has to be followed & the Gaians don't have one. Coming from a tradition of scientific thinking, I would think that any possible 'gaian relgiosity' taking hold would be laughably minor. That being said, it's perfectly logical to me that a small to medium small number of 2nd or 3rd generation Gaians would subscribe to a short & simple set of pseudo spriitual, culture-created scientific dogmas.
To me a Gaian killing or dying for a political cause he or she believes in is no more religious than a military soldier killing or dying while under the orders of their commanders. For example, killing in the name of 'Gaia' or 'protecting the environment' is no different than killing in the name of 'freedom' or 'democracy'
Where's the religious zealotry in that?
& as far as considering player RP irrelevant. Whatever.
I basically think as Hawkings does: if developing RP & folding it into the evolving Disco universe was actually irrelevant, then that would mean we have all been wasting our time here from the begining & should lock up & turn the lights out when we leave & hope the doorknob doesn't hit out a** on the way out.
Let's talk Gaians - pbrione - 04-12-2009
But there is still a point there - if the gaians are to continue with their Kusari support (which they have every RP reason to be allowed to do), then that is fine. But, if so, it should be the case that we expect their public support to decline, along with the legal activities of the Green Front. Green Front activists would have to choose between becoming more extreme and joining the gaians themselves, or rejecting gaian methods altogether and merely become peaceful environmental campaigners who supported the war against Kusari and hence severed ties with the gaians.
Personally, I feel this makes good sense, particularly if the planned Edinburgh trade lane project goes ahead, as it would tie in well with the radicalisation and increased violence of the gaians that would be a natural reaction to any attempted development in Edinburgh.
In short, gaians become more extreme, more aggressive, continue to support Kusari, but lose much public sympathy (though not neccessarily all).
Let's talk Gaians - Drake - 04-12-2009
The quasi-religion I see among the Gaians isn't due to their willingness to die for a political cause, it's their beliefs. The belief that dead planets shouldn't be terraformed because the universe should develop them in its own way, and/or the belief that terraforming a dead planet will have ecological consequences on other planets in the system, without any scientific proof to back up the theory. Blind faith in an idea with no scientific basis sounds a lot like religion.
One meaning of the word 'religion' is ' a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith'.
Let's talk Gaians - Zelot - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:The quasi-religion I see among the Gaians isn't due to their willingness to die for a political cause, it's their beliefs. The belief that dead planets shouldn't be terraformed because the universe should develop them in its own way, and/or the belief that terraforming a dead planet will have ecological consequences on other planets in the system, without any scientific proof to back up the theory. Blind faith in an idea with no scientific basis sounds a lot like religion.
One meaning of the word 'religion' is ' a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith'.
These are scientists, and this is the future, ever thought there might be scientific reasons behind it too?
Let's talk Gaians - Hawkwings - 04-12-2009
Perhaps the Gaians feel that a lifeless hunk of rock still has intrinsic value, and you shouldn't alter it just because it doesn't support life?
I came across a rumor on a Gaian base the other day... something about the Gaians getting access to secret Planetform documents that said that Planetform terraforming would not hold , and within 100 years, the people and plants and animals living on the surface would be in quite a sucky situation. Surely that would be a good reason to oppose terraforming: it doesn't last long and it causes lots of death and suffering at the end of its effectiveness.
Let's talk Gaians - Benjamin - 04-12-2009
Seems like you've dodged the main problem and misunderstood some minor comment I made. The main problem is that the gaians' alliances and their public support do not and will not mesh. The minor comment I made, is that "over a year of RP" doesn't change that at all. As in, it is irrelevant.
If you had just decided to ally with the AFA and that was what I was complaining about, then the year of RP would be relevant.
Hope this clears up any confusion.