+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+--- Thread: Corsair Faction (/showthread.php?tid=41255)
Corsair Faction - Jinx - 12-07-2010
i don t know how ppl read more than is actually written - i mean, you don t know me well enough to make assumptions about my hidden agendas between the lines.
..."telling-people-how-they-should-play"... dunno where you read that one - but i guess you can have it your way if you did read it somewhere in my text. - an advice is an advice - it helps people to see things from perspectives previously hidden to them, cause people tend to have a rather narrow point of view - everyone has. - so it can help to broaden the view by letting others describe it from another angle. after all - i don t say "do as i tell you - or i shoot you..."
mind you - that little analogy hardly applied to corsairs alone, but to every and each character/group that is roleplayed in general - in any setting - that may be fantasy, sci-fi or steampunk or whatever you like.
aside from that - i already described my view on the matter in another thread.
each faction has characterstics and core characteristics... that is easily defined that way, cause freelancer is "roleplay-light". the roles are easy to comprehend, easy to play, cause they are stereotypical. - more complex roles ( like a trader for example ) are usually reduced to a skin-deep level ... so such a diverse faction like the generic traders usually lacks "core characteristics". - henceforth is reduced to trading alone ( which hardly does the character trading justice )
corsairs have indeed many weaknesses - but none as defining as the lack of food.
the lack of food is the basis of all their doing
if the corsairs have had food from the very beginning
- would they have have become pirates?
- would they have have become artifact smugglers? - or maybe rather a nation of reserachers of alien technology
- would they be in a powerstruggle with the outcasts, the hessians?
- would they have a need for a massive warmachine?
i cannot tell - cause that is not how it goes - but i dare say .... the corsairs would have evolved different to what they are today if they had food. - all the rest are consequences of that one core characteristic.
but yes - they do have another "core" characteristic - which is .... being betrayed by the outcasts who left them stranded on a barren rock ( now - imagine that barren rock had turned out to be a fertile paradies - would they feel the same hatred? )
things change - but not the historical facts.
so you may ask - that was then - and this is now.... what if the corsais got food NOW
- that is a different item of course. - for one ... the hatred that fuels ( fueled ) them into becoming what they are today has left scars that cannot heal easily. - so no matter the fulfilled needs - they would still hate the hessians, the outcasts etc. - and they would still be feared for being something like the firefly "reavers" in the houses.
it would take generations to get rid of that stigma - but ... in time.... they would get rid of it.
this transition time is a very interesting part - if you think of real history - and historical events... such transition times are full of .... "interesting times".
- factions go fundamental
- they develope extremes in general
- they start to become "diverse" - die-hards vs. progressive groups etc.
- and not rarely - such a unified nation splits up - leaves more scars - until those are healed, too.
all that is both - my own perception and understanding of it ( meaning - it is only right for me and you can feel free to disagree completely with it ) - and it is based on RP alone - but not game mechanics.
if we base it on game mechanics alone..... a factio whos needs are totally fulfilled, meaning that their CORE needs are fulfilled can either:
- seek our new core needs
- or become like cows
nothing prevents the corsairs to find new needs once their old needs are fulfilled - but the point is to FIND those needs - which might sound like an easy task ... but it really isn t.
edit:
look at zoners for example - re-defining the faction over and over and over, diverse independents, raving maniacs, religious zealots, CoZ, ZA, hardcore traders, greedy bastards, warmongering splintergroups - all that ... and it goes on. - a faction in constant and neverending re-definition. that process continously splits the faction up, melts them together again - splits them up again and again.
what comes natural to a "diverse faction" - has yet to be done for a formerly "unified faction" - and lucky you, if you manage it without any infightings.
Corsair Faction - Not Espi - 12-07-2010
'sigh'
there's more than food.
several wars push corsairs into heavy shipbuilding. ships need stuff. hull plating, engines, IT, whatever they put in there. they way the council sees it food a relatively low priority resource at the moment, when it comes to intercepting transports. several factions are taking care of that particular resource, so the corsairs can feed more people, but why to have a bigger populace when they just sit at home and dont participate in expansion? we need the ships like we needed food 50 (example) years ago.
Corsair Faction - globalplayer-svk - 12-07-2010
repeating my questions, that i typed lot of times.
When you wish corsairs to be lack of food when they dont get food from theta, why was food delivering stopped?...(with answer: no profit...)
when i joined disco, i always saw someone in gamma with cargo ship full of food... now? from zoner side it is only VE,+some indies. (i am not saying that others dont deliver it, i am not in game 24/7) what i am saying is that the ammount of food delivered by the zoner players dropped really much...
and you know what is the most interresing part?
back in old days when almost every zoner in omicrons/omegas delivered some food to corsairs, noone from corsairs maked trouble to him, because he remember that ship in gamma full of food....
other thing is, that is still strange to me is:
omicroners-zoners in omicron theta/74
but not zoners as whole, so conflict with one part is not conflict with zoners as a whole or ?
//but i am still for ending this conflict asap, because as i typed on many skype chats:
a: it is boring
b:its bring nothing
c: in rp 50-150 people vs whole corsair empire standing longer as 1 day is just .....(and no, i will not say that omicroners must loose or what... just pointing on inrp numbers)
Corsair Faction - Carlos_Benitez - 12-07-2010
Seems to me that the food issue has been rather overstated. Let us not forget that the Corsair nation is not some cuddly left-wing altruistic "for the good of the people" society. Most Corsairs will claim that what they do is for the good of the people of Crete, but in reality, for the Corsairs that run things, and the ones you meet in space, the welfare of the people is a pretty low priority.
I'd liken it to a corrupt African nation where most of the aid finds it's way to warlords or members of the government.
That's not to say that there aren't altruists in the empire, and most pilots growing up and getting trained would be motivated by a desire to help the poor people of Crete, but I'd say most would be sucked into the wars, inflict enough cruelty (piracy etc) on fellow human beings that care for the starving faceless population of Crete would get further and further to the back of their minds as they age. It's a widely accepted idea that most people begin their careers as idealists, and gradually lose their idealism as they get older.
I'd say Corsair society is pretty much a right-wing society based on Darwinian principles. Many of the pilots you see in space claim they grew up in Cretian poverty. First was their struggle to have enough food during childhood -the weak died. Natural selection.
Then, the rite of the Maldava cloud; only the strongest, with an innate talents as pilots, survive. -selection.
Then, to drag themselves out of poverty in Crete, and get their own ships, or be impressive enough to be accepted into an organisation. -selection.
Then, the constant battles. Weak pilots die. Strong pilots live to fight the next battle. -selection.
The point I'm illustrating is that the hardship inflicted on the Corsairs by their multitude of enemies, by their lack of resources, or economic isolation does not make their people, or their military weaker. The greater the hardship, the greater the selection pressure, and the stronger the people become. --Over the numerous hundred years the Corsairs have suffered extreme selection pressures, selection to a degree has occured, and fostered ruthlessness, resourcefulness and piloting skill.
It would therefore be reasonable for the Corsairs to believe they are geneticly superior to other races; and (minus the genetic component) the Corsairs have role-played this for years. Given the Corsairs believe they're superior, I'd suggest the Corsair leadership is aware of the constant struggle for survival, aware of the nietzschean philosophy that what doesnt kill their empire makes it stronger, and thus, probably dont really care as much about issues such as Crete's food supply as some Zoner players perceive.
Certainly, the people of Crete who are rich/successful enough to own ships go out and make SURE that they themselves get the food they need. Meanwhile the bulk of the Empire's resources and attention goes on ships and weapons, because that's the priority of the ruling classes, and the ruling classes have food in their belly regardless.
So, food supply a big limiting factor? No. Especially as we already try to get as many ships and pilots out into space as possible. Any population boom due to an increase in food supply (which wouldn't happen, counterbalanced as it is by the loss of suppliers such as the Zoners) wouldn't translate into an increase in the size of the Corsair fleet. It would only serve to decrease the selection pressure applied on Corsair breed-stock, or, more likely, maintain the selection pressure at current levels.
Incidentally, I am not a fascist. Merely calling fascists as I see 'em.
Corsair Faction - Coin - 12-07-2010
' Wrote:If you really want the Corsairs to grow more powerful, get some mining in place. Not just ingame pew pew rocks but larger scale mining of fields.
Honestly, as a person who likes the Mollys, such a thing happening is terrorfying.
Then i take it you would support corsair mining bonuses?
' Wrote:the GRN has a weakness - it is the shortage ( or rather the almost absence ) of raw materials to further their developement. - they threw all they had left into building a massive fleet - but in contrast to others.... they cannot rebuild losses - unless they manage to aquire new space with "fertile" mining areas.
a grave and desperate move - they put all into one bet - and the bet is to conquer sirius in order to gain access to resources.
i d call that a weakness - they are not flexible anymore. it is succession or oblivion
about the corsaif faction in general though.
what is more interesting?
- roleplaying a hero without any weakness, without any doubt high moral and ethics ....
or
- roleplaying a shifty bastard that has as many weaknesses as he has strengthes. - who struggles with himself as much as with others...
weaknesses are bad for the character you play - but GOOD for the player roleplaying the character, cuase weaknesses form a character a lot more than strengthes.
one should be very very cautious with their wishes.... cause if it came true that someone got rid of their weaknesses - one would also loose a significant part of ones personality.
so Gallia is very much like earth today - we have reached peak oil, and everything depends on building RL hegemons to further our inexhaustible hunger for resources.
Corsairs are NOT trying to RP out their weaknesses - we have enough of those already - but we're trying to shift the playing field, cos the 'no food forever' mentality is kinda draining to play against.
Alternatively, make food profitable on crete. if you want corsairs to play as 'true' corsairs, make the trade route attractive to those shady traders out there.
Corsair Faction - ... kur nubėgo? - 12-07-2010
I really fail to see those "multiple-fronts" you all see, except for omega 5, 47 systematic struggle.
Can you enlight me please?
Carlos outdone himself here : O
Quote:It would therefore be reasonable for the Corsairs to believe they are geneticly superior to other races; and (minus the genetic component) the Corsairs have role-played this for years.
Anyway. I tend to believe that biological aspect is here too. Maybe slight, but still.
In now days, then natural selection relatevly lost it's effect noticable biological diffrence appears as 3rd-4th Generation. Around 300 years.
Now corsairs were left to live in Extreme conditions for about 800 years. Lets take in account that their middle lifespawns were much shorter as well. So basicly here you have around possible 16~20 generations which are enough for evulition to make a slight change and adjust corsair people to the extreme living conditions durning natural selection process.
Oh and I also love to see some corasair rp then they define their childhood or early life on crete similiar to fallout 3 wastelands xD (Kudos to evangelist)
Corsair Faction - Montezuma/Kukulcan - 12-07-2010
Ok, there is a major point everyone seems to have been forgetting in this discussion;
The Corsairs are diplomatically working around the supply problems, as any nation would, this doesn't mean they aren't there. All the other houses can produce enough food to feed themselves (with planets like Cambridge, Kyushu and Stuttgart), the Corsairs cant, so without a carefully kept network of suppliers, Crete would be in trouble, and while we can pirate some food, it isn't nearly enough to feed hundreds of millions of people on Crete.
So, we're not by any means saying 'problem solved', Crete is still barren and hostile, and incapable of producing all but the smallest quantities of food, and it has to support a huge, and quickly increasing population. But what we are saying is that through various means, including trading with some of the biggest companies in Sirius, we have found a temporary solution to most of the hunger problems, I say 'most' as there will still be poorer people on Crete going hungry.
Also, we're not trying to powergame invincibility or something, what we have done is find an in RP temporary solution to an in RP problem. Now the solution is by no means absolute, people are still starving, only much fewer people, and the solution is by no means permanent, eventually the population of Crete will grow beyond a size that can be supported by trade alone, then we'll be in the same place as before.
Corsair Faction - Not Espi - 12-07-2010
holy sh- carlos what are they teaching you in that school?
*claps*
lets say that you can pack a few tons of food into a titan.
guy goes hunting, finds a transport, demands 3 tons of food, brings home ... BAM! .. food for a small community for a day. they expand.
but i doubt he could bring a legate / ossie engine on a titan... would he now?
Corsair Faction - BaconSoda - 12-07-2010
' Wrote:holy sh- carlos what are they teaching you in that school?
*claps*
lets say that you can pack a few tons of food into a titan.
guy goes hunting, finds a transport, demands 3 tons of food, brings home ... BAM! .. food for a small community for a day. they expand.
but i doubt he could bring a legate / ossie engine on a titan... would he now?
I don't think 3 tonnes (3,000kg) is an adequate representation of a Titan's cargohold. Despite the fact that Titans are hailed as "Heavy Fighter-Freighters", I don't really think they can hold that much food in 73 "units." That's really a problem in identifying the food problem, but really, I have to say I've agreed with what Carlos is saying for a long time. Food is important, but the other imports the Corsairs have (Gold, Engine Components, Superconductors) are equally, if not more important than just food. At such a point, pirating for food is actually being quite irresponsible as a Corsair. Carrying home 73 "units" of Engine Components, Cobalt, Copper, Gold, or something actually useful would be much more useful to the Empire, while any Corsair with money (what he got from pirating) can buy the exorbitantly priced food on Crete (at least on Capitalist Crete). Seeing that kind of thought publicized makes me very happy, because now I don't think I'm crazy.:)
Corsair Faction - Curios - 12-07-2010
Well, i think when sairs begin to build tonns of caps they become a little quasi-house, not just pirate faction (Same going to outcast, but they can't grow in numbers - they have own line of ivolving with getting closer with nomads). I think ivolving into the little house with own equal of police id, military id and trader id is obvious. Building capial ships in such amount is unreal without such stuff. Also growing nation will not just sit on planet surface or running to pirate someone or to fight. I think they are producing something. actually im waiting for a long time such rp with samura or smth to build factories or smth on Crete so people could work and produce some stuff. Crete is not just a ball of rocks, as any planet it must contain resourced, minerals, etc. So factories that are making something out from basic resources could take a place.