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+--- Thread: police vs Pirates (/showthread.php?tid=5209)
police vs Pirates - jammi - 12-31-2007
' Wrote:but its actually worth a look.
now, its a roleplaying server - and it was utterly against roleplay for a police to destroy a transporter full with thousands of passengers. ( don t think any policeman can justify such murder ) - it leaves the question - if the smuggler is not destroyed / caught before he reaches his destination, - but is then caught without contraband, does it make him still kill-on-sight?
On the note of the passengers, Carlos_Benitez was caught smuggling artifacts at west point. He dropped the artifacts, but cunningly had a civilian pilot in his hold. He used it as a hostage and got around the fine. He did drop it at the JG though. It was funny to watch:)
Quote:And, when are we going to have a first Disco Police Faction? I think that would be a very interesting thing to see.
But i guess all of ya lawfuls prefer Navy, because you have more options what to do.
Maybe i make a Patriot char, a Police officer
If ya look back a few pages in the Rp factions section I proposed a KSP faction. People didn't like it so I scrapped it.
police vs Pirates - bus - 12-31-2007
Anybody interested in joining the LPI should now check the new LPI topic in Discovery RP Factions forum:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9999
(We got a nice ID number for the topic too:).)
police vs Pirates - Archelon - 12-31-2007
' Wrote:Seriously, this is beyond absurd. Implement a way to stop a ship short from utterly destroying it and you will see most police/military forces using it instead. All this drama is ridiculous. The game simply doesn't support, as is, this detailing of action you guys require. There's simply no stopping a vessel short from destroying it, period.
To all the righteous. Suggest another course of action then. If you really do have a good alternative, let's hear it.
Um ... what are you going on about? This is a role play server. If the police (which the LSF are not) cannot catch the smuggler with the loot before he docks, too late and too bad. Don't take it out on the innocent passengers. If he undocks with something else (like commodities or something not breathing) then by all means make an example of him.
Pirates chasing a trader who docks and sells his goods and then undocks with empty holds would be a waste of time to kill ... so I really don't see what you're getting upset about.
' Wrote:Its what had to happen.
Besides the guy obviously wasn't RPing if he docked on a HOSTILE planet. (Not hostile to him, but it should have been, since he was caught smuggling by police and shouldnt have been able to dock)
If he was RPing he wouldn't have landed on Manhattan, and headed for Rochester/surrendered.
Um ... a base or planet is not "hostile" to traders / smugglers just because they carry contraband. They only go "hostile" (temporarily) if scanned and they do not respond to demands to drop cargo. Even NPCs give upwards of 30 seconds to make a decision whether they wanna drop the cargo or run. That's plenty of time to dock and sell the goods before they go "hostile."
' Wrote:Oh, so, Police can stop you only if they already have evidence that you are smuggling?
Don't think so.
Not logical.
If a police tells you to stop, and they are 10k away. You have 2 options.
You can stop, if you are innocent.
You can run, if you are guilty.
Either way, Police will know what to do with ya.
If you start running, ofc they will suspect that you are guilty, and pursue you.
It is so in real world as well.
First, you stop the guy, and then search the vehicle.
Not the other way around.
Simply because, there is NOT enough people on the server, so they can be like a real Police, patrolling and so.
If they have like 5 people online, they are lucky.
And with that number, it is not easy to secure the whole system, again.
Especially if you chase a guy trough 5 systems only to scan him, because he refused to stop.
It's silly.
And, when are we going to have a first Disco Police Faction? I think that would be a very interesting thing to see.
But i guess all of ya lawfuls prefer Navy, because you have more options what to do.
Maybe i make a Patriot char, a Police officer:)
Um ... yeah ... you kinda have to have evidence. If the police are outside of scanning range and yell "stop" and the guy docks and sells his goods ... the cops can't do anything because they have no evidence. The only thing they can do is charge them with not stopping. They can't do anything if they did not see any contraband. And for role play (ie: simulating reality) you need probable cause to stop someone. And after you have probable cause, you'd need a reason to conduct a search (more probable cause). After you have the probable cause, then you can cease the contraband. But you cannot yell all the way across the system to halt if you have no reason to stop them. If this person is a known smuggler, you might have probable cause. Why would a police officer stop every car on the interstate to see if they are carrying contraband? Its not realistic.
A suspect who runs is not guilty. It won't hold up in court. If you catch him, you still have to prove he had contraband. There are many people that run when they see a cop. That's probable cause to stop them. But that does not mean they have something illegal on them. You can stop them and search them for weapons (something that can hurt you). But you cannot necessarily search them for anything illegal without probable cause.
Here's a hint: If you watch the chat window (as many do) and see a certain character departing Omicron Alpha or Gamma and later on they enter "your" system ... you have probable cause to search them. Same as if a cop spots somebody departing a known drug dealer's house or neighborhood. When they enter your system, chase em down and scan them. If they are not carrying anything illegal, you have no case and gotta let them go. However, if at that time they have something, cease it (in game may require destroying the ship). Since everyone claims they don't die, but depart in their escape pod ... this would be RP of you destroying the contraband and the ship it sailed on ... and you get the smuggler in your cargo hold to transport to prison.
police vs Pirates - chopper - 12-31-2007
Yes, well, i didn't even had in mind to "Charge them of smuggling" if i didn't scan them.
There would be a law, and by the law, if player decides to run (and he's not scanned, no evidence), he would be fined for not stopping.
Not for carrying anything, only for not stopping.
And it would be like 500k-1mil fine. And maybe a RP arrest to the nearest police base (if the target is in the mood for it, and it should be).
And i didn't say we would stop everyone. Only suspicious, or the ones that are close.
I'm not gonna travel 3 systems away to scan a guy, for sure.
But the Tag/IFF can give us a hint if someone should be halted or not, really.
police vs Pirates - bus - 12-31-2007
@Archelon What you say may be true in real world but this is Sirius. Perhaps there is a law which allows the police to scan people without having a probable cause and perhaps there is a law which allows them to shoot down people who don't respond to an order to stop. That's pretty much the reason why the laws should be worked out somewhere.
Quote:see a certain character departing Omicron Alpha or Gamma and later on they enter "your" systemWatching people like this is not a very good roleplay, don't you think? Or at least I consider the whole chat window with everybody's location something that shouldn't be used at all.
police vs Pirates - SimonBlack - 12-31-2007
Quote:On the note of the passengers, Carlos_Benitez was caught smuggling artifacts at west point. He dropped the artifacts, but cunningly had a civilian pilot in his hold. He used it as a hostage and got around the fine. He did drop it at the JG though. It was funny to watch
Sounds like fun.
And yea, laws about things like that would be cool. That way we would avoid discussions like this, whether it was a proper or not thing to do. We could simply check in constitution and decide regarding it. Thats what pre-politicians in university do:P
police vs Pirates - tfmachad - 12-31-2007
' Wrote:Um ... what are you going on about? This is a role play server. If the police (which the LSF are not) cannot catch the smuggler with the loot before he docks, too late and too bad. Don't take it out on the innocent passengers. If he undocks with something else (like commodities or something not breathing) then by all means make an example of him.
Well, Archelon, what I'm saying is that since this is a RP server we should behave in a more consistent fashion than the NPCs. See, if the smuggler is avoiding police, he probably wouldn't have the time to calmly stop and sell tickets to over four thousand passengers in the first place. Would him?
Also, we lack "non-lethal" ways of dealing with criminals once they decide not to role play encounters with law enforcing forces. If the law enforcement says, "Stop!" and the guy runs and won't stop by anything, in the end, the only possible solution is destroy his ship. There's no aiming at engines to stop a vessel in Freelancer, simple as that. RP-wise, we have to make a compromise everyday that destroying a ship won't kill it's occupant(s). Don't we? Otherwise we'd have to start new characters every time a ship is destroyed.
Finally, Archelon, my point was, as what happens with pirates and traders, if the guy won't play along in a RP fashion, what can we do?
Now I ask you, what are you going on about? There's a known criminal (be it for smuggling, be it for disobeying orders) passing right under the collective noses of the law enforcers. You're saying that since he's carrying passengers they'll leave him be like nothing happened? Because, if he refuses orders to stop, there's nothing short of destroying his ship to do so.
police vs Pirates - Jinx - 12-31-2007
here is an example:crazy:...
the "law enforcers gun" !!!! - it deals no damage, but pushes the culprit back for 500 kilometers into a random direction - so the villain won t be killed, but gets a nice little 15 minutes free flight back to a dockable lane/base. :Pno more killing people, yay:laugh:
*alcohol and coffee do that to me* - but its new year - in some hours lol...
edit: on a more serious aproach about it:
- could there be a "prison station" be put into each house home system that really ported you 500 clicks away once you docked? - so a police could escort a villaion to the prison and make him dock. - ( but put a big red sign onto it - so poor newbies won t dock haha )
police vs Pirates - MB52 - 12-31-2007
Unfortunately, I doubt you'd get any criminals willing to go there voluntary... now what we truly need is tractor beams that can pull ship around.
police vs Pirates - RingoW - 12-31-2007
@ Jinx: Don't drive your Persephone II in your constitution.
Hehe. I have another suggestions which can work in both ways:
The "OUT OF ROLEPLAY REPORT":tease:
Like the rule violation reports, the pirate or lawful can report the oorp to the admins and they fine the oorper and do spend the fined credits to the reporter.
More work for the admins i guess.:haha:
Hey and i pulled this out of my nose without having alcohol.
(Blowing up a paperback and crash it, because no money for fireworks)
Respectful
AoM