(06-10-2013, 01:47 PM)Anaximander Wrote:

(06-10-2013, 12:06 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: When the base was set hostile, even then that so called "actively killing" was occasional. Who had enough brain, messaged TAZ or OC HQ about "wtf", if latter, OC HQ forwarded message, TAZ asked ship name, put them on list, problem solved.

Problem is, you only realize after you get podded. I suppose you'd want me to ignore that fact, but in my view such events actually do happen to my character, i.e. he did get whacked with no warning and no reason by TAZ, I choose not to ignore that, because to me that is what RP is about. In real life who would just go "oh well, next time I'd better ask if I can pass their doorstep" if your neighbours you thought as friends suddenly grabbed you and beat you up with no warning?

(06-10-2013, 12:06 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Just because some failed to read the warning TAZ transmitted beforehand, and got shot at once (!), that hardly counts as "actively killing".

Killing is killing, whether or not it's once or twice, it's totally irrelevant. But I agree one could have kept peeled to the comms and base threads, but frankly I don't think that should be a requirement to play this game. In-game events > forum; but I acknowledge that that is a personal preference.

(06-10-2013, 12:06 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: And I didn't see OC-TAZ negotiations ending up in a war or OC complaining too much about how their economy got hit hard by this station.

That is correct, but I do think that on a roleplay server like this with relatively few slots and a commitment to play out a framework (i.e. Gallia is stronger than Bretonia & friends, although in-game activities suggest otherwise - that's the very same reason why Zoners can't wage war on the Omicrons, even though they might have the ships and players to do so), official factions hold a special obligation to be mindful of lore, diplomacy and regional power balance, even if there is no opposing faction that interferes.



It begs the question of whether or not this has actually happened as an event, because the official factions seem to not really recognize it.

(06-10-2013, 12:06 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: I know about the ooRP reason behind the base, thing is it has an inRP reason too. The ship may not be their property, but the station is. Seems people tend to forget this.

I always acknowledged that it has an in-rp reason too; I never forgot that. I'm just pointing out that there are two sides, and to my understanding factions are supposed to be more "excellent". To me, the "excellent" thing to do would be to let this slide, for the sake of other players as well as for the sake of immersion/realism (I mean very few would visit that place if not for the Aquilon) until the bug get fixed up, then go crazy with bases and guns and permissions.

(06-10-2013, 12:06 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Well, not people, rather stations doing so. You just can't demand West Point to RP before shooting at your Xeno, can you?

There's a big difference in that Outcasts and TAZ are supposed to be neutral lore-wise, whereas West Point and Xenos aren't. That was a terrible example.

(06-10-2013, 12:06 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Oh, wait, many people claim on these forums that pewing is a form of RP too, what do you think about it?

(06-10-2013, 12:06 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: If Malta would have suffered from Malaclypse Freeport so much, there has been already some tensions building up between Outcasts and TAZ. Currently I am not aware of such happening, if it really did, please redirect me to the ongoing roleplay related to this.

That is exactly the root of the issue I am having - I see pew as RP, so when TAZ killed me with no warning, I see it as TAZ going "Hey Outcasts, we had a good ride but now we had enough of you, and we're stopping your flow of cardamine and frying your ships in the process", however because the factions which represent the NPC factions go "Hmm ok", I am not sure whether or not to play out this event. TAZ DID shoot me, and countless of other Outcasts. They DID stop the flow of Cardamine for all but a few that got registered; and in-rp a lot of the Cardamine export is handled by junkers, but a lot of it is also handled by Freelancer traders who otherwise trade legit and wouldn't want to get registered anywhere. Blocking Cardamine trade should and would be felt in Outcast economy, but I suppose that is something that should be totally disregarded when factions are busy doing other things or can't be bothered throwing their weight into it?

tl;dr: Is an event only really an event when Official Factions get behind it? Should any and all roleplay and experiences of independent players be totally disregarded?

Anyway, did you try that T29 jh base? It's quite impressive, actually - as a comparison, I can easily enter O74 and deal with the ZA and NPC platforms without getting my shield lowered, but that base in baffin managed to get me down to 3 bars of health before I even got control of my ship. There's a vast, vast difference in deadliness. It's a completely different beast than the insignificant Guard NPC platforms and stationary BS's around JH's.

(06-10-2013, 03:15 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I don't see why I should be forced to join official factions or play skype games; that's not how I want to spend my time on here.

(06-10-2013, 03:15 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Ok so that base never really blocked cardamine trade? We should just ignore those that got killed as "oorp entities" because they didn't ask for permission first? It never really happened in-rp? Is that correct?

(06-10-2013, 03:15 PM)Anaximander Wrote: You want me to not look at TAZ, but rather at indy outcasts whom I don't know and have never seen "abusing" anything. It was TAZ that shot me for no reason whatsoever, why should I be concerned with anything else?

(06-10-2013, 03:15 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I don't see why I should be forced to join official factions or play skype games; that's not how I want to spend my time on here. I don't think it is in the spirit of the server that you have to join an official faction or accept to get treated as a "non-entity". I did complain in-rp, but frankly I couldn't be arsed pushing it further because that wasn't the responsibility of my character, i don't represent the NPC faction but at least up until now it was my general impression that I was supposed to be a part of it.

(06-10-2013, 03:15 PM)Anaximander Wrote: And what actions don't I take blame for? That character never did anything to upset TAZ in the slightest, save for defending himself and his crew from a Colonial that engaged in Coronado and followed into Baffin, and that matter got resolved.

(06-10-2013, 03:50 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Now, what are we talking about? Because it's sure not the same.
Did a few die to the base? Yes. Was there warning prior to it? Yes. Were there communications between the parties after the incidents? Yes. Did the whole escalate into a full scale hostility between TAZ and Casts? No. Is that Baffin gateway so important that it's significance is bigger than any other cardi smuggling route? Doubtful.

(06-10-2013, 01:32 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: I want you to find out more about the whole scheme before ending up in accusations and claims solely based on your personal experience.

(06-10-2013, 01:32 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Indeed, you are a part of it, but if you are the only part of it been hurt, why do you expect the whole OC community to start a crusade against TAZ just because you have been shot? If there were no serious actions taken against that station, it means the overall impact on the whole community was not enough significant to provoke such a response.

(06-10-2013, 01:32 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Neither did my character anger them in any way, but that barely changes the fact that there has been a warning. Your character, as well as mine, entered Baffin at his own risk, and suffered the consequences of his actions, as well as mine did.

(06-10-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: We're talking about the same thing, but we're not on the same page. What you describe above is what took place between the factions representing the NPC factions, I fully recognize that that was the course of events.

My question is, because Outcast leadership shrugged it off should my character and all other Outcasts that got hurt; all those that lost profit due to either a longer trade route or actually lost ships and cargo, just ignore it as a non-event? Cardamine-trade didn't get blocked, even though that was what we as players and our characters experienced?

(06-10-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I describe things as I experienced them through the prism of my Outcast character. He got shot by TAZ for no reason whatsoever, all the rest doesn't really matter to him. You are asking me to make an oorp disposition regarding other players and let that form my roleplay reaction. I don't really care for that, to tell you the truth.

(06-10-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: So that means that the "community", and I daresay factions, determine the validity of any event, even if the outcome conflicts with both in-game actions (by proxy through the base killing all non-registered Outcasts) and lore (the day TAZ starts attacking the Maltese Empire is the day TAZ gets destroyed)? I think that is unreasonable, too many things can just slide by that way if factions aren't paying attention or aren't bothered.

(06-10-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Sure, but what I am surprised about is the mutual agreement between the two factions to just let it slide, even though lore suggests that Outcasts are über-dependent on cardamine trade, are aggressive (at war with half of Sirius) and generally claim the Tau's as theirs, and TAZ are über-dependent on their neutrality with local powers and generally have a decent relationship with Outcasts whom have been transporting Cardamine through Baffin in peace for the longest time. It just doesn't sit right that Outcasts should just accept TAZ KoS'ing any unregistered Outcast vessel on that very vital trade route, neither does it sit right that TAZ should want to do so and de facto declare war.

(06-10-2013, 04:49 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Characters got hurt can do anything in accordance to the events, complain to TAZ, complain to Outcasts, eventually to both, continue smuggling, be mad on TAZ, whatever you guys wish to do, of course keeping the possible consequences in mind.

(06-10-2013, 04:49 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: You argue based on in-character experiences, but you argue on ooRP platforms, ooRPly. Why are you here then? Why don't you argue about the actions of the TAZ inRP then? I was asking you to make an ooRP disposition because this is an ooRP platform and not because I want your roleplay reaction getting formed by that. And I can hope you won't make the mistake many tend to do this day: Don't mix inRP with ooRP, please.

(06-10-2013, 04:49 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: That means the group itself decides it's fate, not the individual. The TAZ by no means attacked the Maltese, rather unregistered and ignorant individuals triggered a defense mechanism of a station and caused an incident which could have been avoided.

(06-10-2013, 04:49 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: It is funny you, as an "outsider" (because you admitted you are not part of the official outcast faction, just an indie) want to say how bothered official factions should be regarding your mistakes and how they should punish others for them.

(06-10-2013, 04:49 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Want them to pay more attention? Write a complaint to them, write in their feedback thread, join them. Do something for it.

(06-10-2013, 04:49 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Did it discriminate and only shoot outcasts? No, it pretty much shot at any other unregistered vessels, including mine, despite me being neutral with them as well. So it would be nice if you wouldn't use a tone implying that TAZ pretty much picked on Outcasts, bullying every little indie cardi smuggler, when they did not.

(06-10-2013, 05:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: When the official outcast stance is being passive, there's not much one can do, even though that laissez-faire approach totally conflicts with what the relationship between Outcasts and TAZ is supposedly about.

(06-10-2013, 05:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: We are discussing roleplay, aren't we? You fleshed out the roleplay view of TAZ, I laid out my view of roleplay and the experiences my character had in-rp. The idea is that we try to understand one another, and I do think I understand the TAZ roleplay reasoning, that Baffin is their property and Bonito is sacred and off-limits to those who don't respect TAZ ways. I'm just asking you to see the other side of the coin.

(06-10-2013, 05:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: You assume and dictate that stupidity is the only reason not to register in-rp, whereas there are countless other reasons such as pride, arrogance, disdain and so on. Don't make assumptions on behalf of other players, it's not your prerogative. The Outcasts see themselves as Outcasts for good reason, and they fight those who oppose them viciously. On paper, at least.

(06-10-2013, 05:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: When you say "my mistake", do you mean me as a player? Or my character? I believe I didn't make a mistake as a player, I shouldn't be obliged to monitor comms threads and base posts to avoid getting killed by things that lore and ID-wise are neutral entities that by no means should shoot at me - their ships would have been sanctioned had the shooting been carried out that way. My character didn't either - he's a lord of the Tau's, why should he bow to a petty group of religious freaks that can be crushed instantly by the Maltese Empire? Why would proud Outcasts except such treatment, and why would they be ok with leadership that ask them to bow before TAZ?

(06-10-2013, 05:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I did, we all know feedback threads are a joke when it comes to stuff of real significance and it's always been like that. I'll never post in one again because there's no point really. You are also claiming I didn't do anything for, but that's quite frankly untrue. I am a part of 2 Outcast factions already, I wouldn't want to join a third.

(06-10-2013, 05:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Ok my bad, so you are saying the base indiscriminately bullied every unregistered trader then, regardless of affiliation. I didn't know, I only witnessed and experienced Outcast ships killed.

(06-10-2013, 05:40 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Why, what is the relationship of the Outcasts and TAZ?

(06-10-2013, 05:40 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Now you claim you understand the reasoning behind the bases, so frankly, what are we arguing about?

(06-10-2013, 05:40 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: But then there comes the consequences: Does it worth to risk my cargo, my life? Does it risk to provoke a war who knows if my nation will ever have a gain from?

(06-10-2013, 05:40 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: As far as I know birth rates are very poor among the Outcast population, meaning that every life is important, too important to disregard such risks.