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+--- Thread: Siege Ship Idea...[well the [Resurrection of the idea] (/showthread.php?tid=102029)
Siege Ship Idea...[well the [Resurrection of the idea] - Echelon - 07-17-2013
All Are subject to change possibly
Had A idea after all the commotion about how PoB's are Overpowered at times and how they can be abused and such, I came across a idea, to help balence everything out for the better, also to add more fun to base sieging less mindless shooting for weeks and lag issues
A ship that is meant for siegeing bases , more so the more powerful ones i.e core 3-4.
Basically, EDIT: The Model Jinx posted with a massive gun that only fires forwards So where the ship points is where the mortar fires. with ultra slow refire. and really high range, The ship will contain absolutely No shields. this ship will be rendered useless in a fight vs players, now the mortar barge will have to be supported to be combat effective if the barge is just alone it's a sitting duck for bomber and other cap fire. It's cruise will be 120 possibly but will take half the time to charge as a barge and the turnrate 2 times as good as the barge, so pretty much all you have is enough of a ablity to maneuver slighty so its easier to do things such as jump the ship and whatnot
So fighter wings and capital ships would have to defend it.
Now now before you all go oh this will be too op people will abuse it,
1. this will be a SRP ship only,
2 it would have to be a joint effort to destroy a core 4 of multiple mortar barge variant's to pop a core 4-3 but it still will be time consuming.
3. It could have a restriction to it can be only used for events and such.
4. limit 1 per Official Military Faction, any use of the ship oorply will have it be taken away of course.to go indepth any official faction that uses Capital ships like battleships for fighting and battleing.
5. limited nano amount
6. Ammo could cost credits to use making usage a tougher decision.
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Not only is it quite balanced it promotes teamwork and more activity within bases, so it makes it viable for unlawful factions to place their PoB's inside asteroid fields and fun locations to make the mortar barge unable to attack.
this would reduce the amount of lag caused by too many players in one area for some and all the particle effects.
Thoughts. Suggestions im quite sure this could work, Im quite tired and all the thing said aboive can be subject to change
Let Me Make a Pro's and Con's for this, If you have a reason This will be Good Post it, Reason it could cause issues post it, and suggestions post them too.
Pros: sieging will have less lag from all particles
sieging will be more team oriented.as the ship will need to be defended and loaded from other ships.
SRP: means a Much smaller influx of lolwuttey
Official Military Like Factions Only/'Or Military Like Unofficials Who can SRP: Although This May seem unfair to the unofficial groups In reality its to keep it fair, do you really want to see a traders piloting a warship or a peaceful zoner getting gear to assault bases.
The fact that ammo has to be bought at a expensive price, that or it has to be made, also it will take up A lot of cargo space.
Things that arn't really a issue:
It is really unfeasible to shoot players with it as you only get one shot and that shot is a massive shield buster. and won't kill your target.
lolwuts piloting ships: It's really really unlikely a lolwut will gain assess to the ship through a SRP request.
Things that could be a issue (Cons):
Certain people Could abuse the power of the ship and gank bases. The reality is if 2 different Factions with the Siege ship controlled with Access restricted by the leader, to gank a playerbase ooc is highly unlikely, There would be a reason behind multiple ships siegeing.would be a inrp reason or a event or something.
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Jinx - 07-17-2013
it had been suggested - even with a model ( which in that case - just for the sake of it - was mostly similar to sins )
but any idea of a dedicated siege ship was rejected
http://p3d.in/0gkat
(sizewise - it is about the size of an arbiter BB)
the idea here had been
- very slow ( barge like )
- no shields, no bots
- high hitpoints
- has 1 ammo
- can be resupplied by dedicated ammo ships that have normal stats and can fly back and forth
- does significant shield breaking damage vs. pobs
- only SRP
reasons:
- the ammo part makes it a non-solo ship
- the SRP makes it rare enough
- no shields, no bots make every damage count - so a defense force can focus fire on it
- heavy single shots means less server load
but the idea was rejected - so - currently - dedicated siege ships is a "no"
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Echelon - 07-17-2013
Those are all good reason I would have to say, as it gets really irritating when the game gets laggy when all the shots are flying around, strange how it must have got rejected. this all will rely on teamwork. oh well.
I Would love for anyone to suggest why this would be a bad idea.
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Di'taraAlpha - 07-17-2013
However, we currently have an uncountable problem.
Base defence of large core threes and fours can be done by just a few oppertunistic transports at low activity times. an hour of supplying properly can require eons of sieging to deplete, from a vast number of high-grade caps. Not only is the ridiculous capspam required difficult to Rp, it causes rage-inducing lag and bores everyone involved. The defenders merely need to wait for one little opening in the shield and hey presto; full regens. Any half-measures, such as No-Fly-Zones, result in enormous QQ and Oorp TBF of InRp actions.
The artillery ship concept is the best possible counter to this there could ever be.
Does it seem right to you that one unarmed transport can defend a base more successfully than a mixed taskforce of caps and snubs?
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Jinx - 07-17-2013
well - i can state the reasons
now - the main reason is that we do not trust "you" guys. - that is the players, which include devs and admins, too of course.
the problem with the curent system is that it takes very long to decontruct a base - the solution is to make it faster.
but if you make it faster - it unbalances the time spent to build it vs. the time needed to destroy it. - making a big cannon that can do the job easier gives the ppl who can use it a lot of responsibility. - responsibility that we do not quite believe the average player ( no matter if indie or official faction ) has.
a counter to that is to force teamwork and coordination. - but even if we did the ammo-feeding mechanic - it would take only few ppl to effectivly make it work. - and we might get small bands of players who claim to be responsible, but act on ooc motives more than RP .. and destroy others ppls works "cause they can"
so the main reason it was rejected is cause so far - players have not shown the level of respect and responsibility towards other players pobs - which includes all the time up to now ... ( the rejection of a siege weapon had been - i think late last year )
edit: one problem is that we do have SRP approval processes - but almost none ( if any ) mechanics to check if the high quality and demands of RP is uphelp once the SRP was gained. - so someone might be trustworthy and responsible when he asked for a siege weapon - but might turn into a total jackass 4 months later.
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Gulryz - 07-17-2013
why not you upgrade it or remodel it
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Duvelske - 07-17-2013
If then redesign a Barge. Remove its canesters and Give it like 6 huge canons. And blast away. Only forward firing so it Cannot defend itself.. But with The lack of responsibility i must agree with jinx That its better without. And if you gather now enough folks you can destroy a base too
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Echelon - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 02:05 PM)Jinx Wrote: edit: one problem is that we do have SRP approval processes - but almost none ( if any ) mechanics to check if the high quality and demands of RP is uphelp once the SRP was gained. - so someone might be trustworthy and responsible when he asked for a siege weapon - but might turn into a total jackass 4 months later.
Thats kind of why theres the part in the SRP request that if you agree if you misuse your SRP, it will be deleted, also possibly make the cost of srping the ship a solid billion or more. to further prevent abuse.
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Echelon - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 02:07 PM)osama gulryz Wrote: why not you upgrade it or remodel it
(facepalm) no please, hell no. barges do not need a upgrade, if you are going to contribute, keep it on topic.
Also, That Model looks pretty nice that you posted jinx
Edit: So many lurkers....post some thoughts guys.
Also: It would be quite hilarious if a few guys shot a admin shielded ship with the siege ship idea.
RE: Idea [Siege Ship] - Echelon - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 02:05 PM)Jinx Wrote: the problem with the curent system is that it takes very long to decontruct a base - the solution is to make it faster.
but if you make it faster - it unbalances the time spent to build it vs. the time needed to destroy it. - making a big cannon that can do the job easier gives the ppl who can use it a lot of responsibility.
a counter to that is to force teamwork and coordination. - but even if we did the ammo-feeding mechanic - it would take only few ppl to effectivly make it work. - and we might get small bands of players who claim to be responsible, but act on ooc motives more than RP .. and destroy others ppls works "cause they can"
so the main reason it was rejected is cause so far - players have not shown the level of respect and responsibility towards other players pobs - which includes all the time up to now ... ( the rejection of a siege weapon had been - i think late last year )
- I would suggest ammo takes up a massive amount of cargo space so you can't just fill the ship easily, and it will still have a giant refire anyway to counter the method of constant supply, think of how the enormous amount of energy it takes to charge a railgun shot for it.
- on the second one im quite sure thats grounds for a sanction for lack of sufficent roleplay for engagement, the ship would get deleted
-the transports giving ammo will be targets too of the siege I would imagine the defense would be Shoot the weapons supply lines, then attack the siege ship.
while the people on the assualt defend from the bombers shooting their transports and the capital ships going after the siege ship.
- Bases should be able to hold out for a sufficent amount of time, Core 4's should take multiple siege ships i.e 3-4 to start bringing the hurt.
So sieges are costly to preform and can fail too
Sorry for the triple-post