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+---- Thread: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? (/showthread.php?tid=102891)
Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - adzcriz - 08-06-2013
Yesterday, I suddenly realised why people gank, with the armour upgrades, twitch fighting fighters take a bloody long time to kill 1v1 it usually comes down to who has the most durable wrist. For capitals I can see the sense in armour upgrades as a pair of bombers can take one apart pretty quickly as it is already, yep, biggest mistake was high armour levels for fighters.
My thoughts are, if your placing armour on a target, Its mass increases, so, thusly, Its Acceleration, Agility and Top Speed should really be affected, with the penalties being proportionate to the Armour Upgrade Level, it won't really affect capitals because 1, they are slow and 2, are as agile as a drunk Rhino already. it will however give capitals a half decent chance to actually kill attacking bombers, instead of said bombers Rofl'ing at the Capitals pitiful attempts to shoot them, and will do away with 15 minute Fights that make my wrist feel awful, Heck ive been known to just let my opponent kill me as a CBA to mess around all day.
I have every expectation of getting trolled and flame'd so go ahead =p
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Thexare - 08-06-2013
Reportedly, fighter equipment's arleady been rebalanced for the next version specifically to make fights not take forever.
I'm unfamiliar with the full details though.
The armor upgrades pretty much had to be added as a result of making heavier craft available to players, otherwise no one would want to fly fighters. As opposed to the current situation, in which most people don't wnat to fly fighters.
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Highland Laddie - 08-07-2013
Caps aren't necessarily MEANT to take out snubcraft, unless you load then down with anti-snub weaponry like flacks and gats.
That's the whole point of having diversified fleets when you fly around, instead of tanking around in your battlecruiser trying to kill everything you see/want.
As for decreased agility with higher armor - not all armors necessarily mean "heavier" in terms of mass. Some higher grade armors can just use stronger alloys that actually weigh less (think titanium vs iron). So that comparison doesn't necessarily follow
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Duvelske - 08-07-2013
did adress this before, but then it was so called the cloaks which made the problem. Rather then the armors itself to be mounted on a ptrans for example.
Point is armors are used like this:
UAU - Snubs
HAU - gb and transports
Cau - Cruisers/battleships.
Funny is now you see transports with a cau6 - cau 8 (ask IMG they like convoys like that) But this gives a reason to boost the ships for pirates.. ak give the plain pirate id an own battleship and cruiser. As no faction will give one to them. Because be honest with a bomber you cannot do a damn thing against a cau6-8 shire. Even not with a gunboat against it. You have more chance to be ganked by the shires then you to destroy them.
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Govedo13 - 08-07-2013
Cap armour should just take move space and cost a lot more.
Also there is a way to fix it by boosting Cruiser and Battleship hulls x2 and increasing the cap armour space requirement. I dunno if one would take it on transp if it takes 1000 cargo space.
Also the armours make no sense money/efficiency wise,
Cau7 is useless everything under cau6 is useless too, so actually only Cau6 and Cau8 have some economical sense- this especially on transports. Transports and trading get constantly buffed the poor devs think that this would make the the mod more interesting but it would kill actually.
Fighters and bombers are actually fine, they just need less bots. Cut the bots in half and you got twice shorter battles.
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Duvelske - 08-07-2013
Indeed, but this unbalance is also a result that many unlawfull factions cease to exist. Or at least much beeing played. As without a cruiser to pirate for example you are nowadays nowhere. Or you must be with already like 3 to 5 people. And even then if you catch a shire with meantioned armor or a stork or whatever else there is you must HOPE you kill it before it fast docks and starts to QQ against you.
// But NO m8.. IT WAS THE CLOAKS
(yeah my time to QQ ) Another easy way to compensate this give the Pirate id for example access to admin cannons. It might actually balance it 
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Blodo - 08-07-2013
Actually, things in disco are balanced around the expectation that every ship will have the best armour available to it mounted. And lets be honest here: price has never been an issue, you can make things cost 20 billion (if it was possible without it corrupting accounts) and given enough time everybody will have it simply because equipment or ships are not lost on death. So price was never a balancing factor, and wont be unless for some reason ship loss upon death is ever implemented. Furthermore, considering that balancing pretty much expects you to mount the best armour to stay competitive, it is a bit of a necessary purchase anyway.
So taking the above into consideration, I think we're asking the wrong question here. The right one would be: why do we need armours in the first place when we could just adjust ship HP by whatever is the best armour they can mount, reduce their cargo holds and adjust their price appropriately, and thus simplify a rather meh aspect of disco.
Of course we could also try and rebalance everything with accordance to ship mass/hp gain ratios but truth be told even then there would be a "best armour" with the best ratio for prolonged fights (offering the best agility for the best hp gain), so either way it would be a bit senseless. What do you guys think?
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Rodnas - 08-07-2013
yes please include the armor into the ships already (without the price increase) - because despite the many people here that seem to have so much freetime at hand, poor sods like me don't ahve the time to grind money for buying CAUs
...or to be precise, after 2 years of playing disco i own 2x CAU6 1x CAU8 all three were gifts by departing players, otherwise i never had that kind of money spare... so let's say goodbye to armor and hello to less grinding
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Govedo13 - 08-07-2013
(08-07-2013, 02:13 PM)Blodo Wrote: Actually, things in disco are balanced around the expectation that every ship will have the best armour available to it mounted. What do you guys think?It is clear that the things are balanced like that from 4.85 times.
Good start would be to keep it like that especially the Transport/Piracy balance as you plan for 4.87.
I explained why here.
I also think that Discovery is a way too easy to play and the ships are a way too easy to maintain so everyone and his dog can PvP mindlessly in each encounter, in the same way each 5ker transport can afford to die from pirates since none is loosing nothing. I can go on but there is no point.
If I put it in shortest way possible:
1. Add more money sinks:
- ship maintenance should be more expensive- snubs resupply costs more then caps resupply now- kinda idiotic.
- small dead penalty tax
- base made items should have small chance to be lost upon death
- higher tax for commands like renameme/givecash/lights etc.
- higher tax on ship trading commands
2. Reduce the trading/mining thing as well at least with 30%
3. Balance the ship classes vs each ship class individually by using the shield modifiers,if needed remove the anti-shield guns at all if needed since only this balance method allow things to be actually balanced.
Rodnas if you does not have time it is your problem. For two years time since you registered in the forum:
Let say that you could spend each month 2 hours trading or mining(40 m/h) you should have about 2,3b by now-enough for one cau8 battleship and bunch of cruisers and many of snubs..
Grinding in Discovery is not grinding because you keep the thing that you grinded like forever.
RE: Armour Upgrade, Balanced? - Duvelske - 08-07-2013
Its not the armors which is such a problem, but the ships people mount it on. Isn't it possible to make some armor slot? Like for instance a equipment slot? This way you can maybe even define that ship X can use some max armor. or armor types. i think it would at least solve the almost immortal cau transports these days.