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+--- Thread: Zoner IDs (/showthread.php?tid=10454)
Zoner IDs - Carlos_Benitez - 07-17-2008
Be warned..this is a rant.
It seems to me that for quite some time, people have been using Zoner IDs to exempt them from piracy as they haul their advanced trains backwards and forwards on power-routes.
Without so much as a change to their RP, your average joe Adv. Train pilot sells his Trader ID, buys a Zoner ID and expects to be ignored by all pirates in Sirius.
Not by me.
I've encountered traders using this shield, labouring under the misinformed idea that the Corsairs and Zoners are allies. They are not.
The Zoners overcharge the Corsairs for food, and infringe on Corsair territory. The Corsairs are by nature suspicious of outsiders, particularly cold businessmen as the Zoners seem to be. The game is full of rumours stating that the Corsairs are extremely uncomfortable with the Zoner presence in Omicron Theta (and in particular, the existence of Juggernauts).
People justify their claims in a number of ways.
"Zoners are allied to the Order. So are the Corsairs". That means nothing whatsoever. Just because a bunch of Libertonians living on the other side of Sirius are friends with both, doesn't mean that two large and powerful groups on eachother's doorsteps never fall out.
"There are Corsairs on Freeport 9. You can get a Corsair bribe there". Newsflash; anyone is allowed onto a Freeport, and bribes mean nothing. Did you know you can get Criminal Bribes in places like the New London Bar? By that logic, the Bretonian Police must be pals with the Mollys, Outcasts, Corsairs etc.
The Zoners and Corsairs trade with each other, and occasionally provide each other shelter in the hopes that they will help each others' economies. That is all.
If a Corsair was being attacked by a swarm of Outcasts, would a Zoner assist the Corsair or let him die? He would do the latter. This is no basis for an alliance, and is part of the reason that the Zoners and the Corsairs are NOT allies.
We don't tax in Theta normally, as we respect Zoner jurisdiction there. In Omega-41 however, any Zoner craft should be fair game for being coerced by force into making a donation the Corsair nation.
As far as I see it, there is no difference between a Zoner Trader and an unaffiliated Trader. The pilot is a man working for himself, and if he strays into Corsair territory he should expect no different than any other merchant.
Out of respect for the Zoner people, I am as polite with my demands as I can be. However, that's as far as it goes. The principle is the same; you pay or you find your ship in pieces.
If I see a merchant ship flying the colours of a Zoner sub-corporation (ie. a Zoner group tag) I may choose not to tax him in order to avoid a diplomatic backlash, and at least I can be sure that pilot is not working entirely for himself. The cargo they are carrying, and their destination might also influence my decision.
We are all aware of the existence of traders who choose this career purely to save up for larger ships. It is these individuals who will avoid paying a pirate at all costs.
The traders who are actually here to play the game and enjoy themselves sooner or later accept that piracy (and the danger element therefore added) enhances the game, not detracts from it, and it is at this point that they stop trying to look for loopholes. I love to see traders putting up a good fight; making decent attempts not to be caught, but I can't stand my time being wasted with OORP chat about how I shouldn't be taxing them.
Bottom line is, I will continue to tax independent cargo trains who use Zoner IDs as a defence against piracy, and I will advise my familia to do so as well. I am fairly certain I am within my rights to do so and that this is not a violation of server laws.
If anyone feels this action is not right, feel free to justify your point of view and get me to change my mind.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who's found himself in the situation described above.
Rant over.
Zoner IDs - Tenacity - 07-17-2008
corsairs and zoners are only allies by means of a third party - the order. Zoners/order are allies, corsairs/order are allies, that's as far as it goes.
As far as I'm concerned, zoners are just as likely to be pirated as anyone else as long as it's not directly outside of a freeport. The reason zoners maintain nuetrality is because their freeports have a lot of defenses (in-rp, each freeport is protected by zoner destroyers/juggernauts) and because zoners are rich enough to 'pay-off' (read: bribe) anyone that would try to take advantage of them.
if a zoner cargo transport wants to avoid getting blown up, he'll bribe the pirate, just like anyone else.
Zoner IDs - Kuraine - 07-17-2008
I agree, too many Zoners use it as a shield against piracy. I have even been guilty of it before once or twice, in the distant past. However, normally these days if I am travelling to Gamma or Alpha, i'll be taking supplies that the Outcasts/Corsairs badly need, such as medicines, food, water etc and taking back artifacts or cardamine. That will usually allow you to pass without being molested by them, and even encouraged.
I have no issues with you pirating Zoners.
Zoner IDs - Jura_II - 07-17-2008
Players keep forgetting one important thing so i will repeat it again:
Zoner ID is NOT neutral ID.
There are no rules that say pirating a Zoner will get you sanctioned.
Zoners can and will get pirated, especially if they have only zoner ID/no tag or Zoner ID/random non Zoner tag. And i totally support pirating them. Speaking as a Zoner. There is an increasing number of Zoner power traders, using the ID to trade to a battleship, and then use that battleship and Zoner ID to hunt pirates. Maybe this will lower their numbers and only keep players that RP a Zoner....rant...
I don't mind getting pirated on my Zoner, it has a nice RP potential.
I also have no issues with you pirating Zoners.
Zoner IDs - sovereign - 07-17-2008
Zoner ID + Zoner tag = Zoner, that buys you diplomatic immunity. As in, I won't blast you out of the sky for no reason, and I won't needlessly insult you unless you start it. I will, however, pirate you just like everyone else, the Zoner council has not said it will declare war on anyone who does that and they continue to allow it, so until that changes there will be no repercussions unless I go out of my way to do you especial harm.
End of story. Thank you, come again, and make sure you bring your wallet like you did last time.
EDIT: Jinx brought up something important, I was not indicating Zoner ID - Zoner tag != Zoner, its just common when referring to players to say stuff like "if you have a BHG ID and tag, your a member of the Bounty Hunters Guild". I'm not one of the guys that believes you need the tag (one of the harder ones, its actually easier to get a Zoner guard tag because it doesn't depend on luck) or else you're a "spy". That's underhanded.
Zoner IDs - Zelot - 07-17-2008
Yes, I have been ranting on Skype about this for a while. The AFA territory sits right on the most used powertrading route on the server, and I have noticed a dramatic change over the last couple of weeks. It used to be 1 out of every 7-10 traders on the route was carrying a Zoner ID. Now on the other hand, it is about 50/50 sometimes more. When more than half the traders doing the Noob run are using Zoner ID's there is a problem. I for one decided about a week ago that I will start RP'ing pirating Zoners, the rule I set for myself is that if when I RP pirating them, they RP are a Zoner, and actually know what that means I will leave them alone, but if I get "I'm a Zoner, you cant pirate me noob." I will be giving them my Gaijin special price:angry:
Zoner IDs - Jinx - 07-17-2008
i think i should do a copy paste sometimes.
the only thing that tells you what faction a player is ... that is the ID. if a player has a zoner ID, he is a zoner - there is absolutely no reason, nor any room for discussion about more or less zoner with or without tag. - the tag - like any other faction ( - yes, every other faction as well ) has to match the ID as closely as possible, but that doesn t say that the player impersonating a zoner is less a zoner than someone with a tag.
zoners do not enjoy immunity - but most pirates that depend on them should hesitate. there is a little bit of out or roleplayness about attacking a zoner IDed player more than one without a tag. - or is a char without a tag only half a char? - is a liberty rogue without a liberty rogue tag only half a criminal?
the zoners neutrality is part of their characteristic. - people got to live with it. - those that attack zoners on a regular base or out of pure spite better make sure that they are deep red to zoners. - that is a consequence that must be taken ... especially if someone thinks highly of the RP, instead of the ruleset.
so, please, - keep in mind that anyone with a zoner ID is a zoner.... thats the benefit of public IDs ( as opposed to locked IDs like coalition, AW, phantoms, keepers, RM and novaPG )
i expect every serious roleplayer to respect that fact and treat zoners maybe down to what the player has actually done ( like bringing cardamine to crete ) - if a zoner transporter brought food to crete however - a zoner IDed, but maybe untagged or Samura tagged or Synth food tagged ship - he is to be considered a zoner that is working positivly for the corsairs.
Zoner IDs - Telbasta - 07-17-2008
zoners are supposed to be living out in deep space, outside of the usual laws and threats of the houses.
If they come into a house, they better expect that the house criminals will go after them just like any other trader. My hogosha will tax a zoner just as often as anyone else, it's payment for your right to remain in kusari space without the threat of being blown up by my ship or those I'm allied with. The hogosha dont care for any outsiders, and zoners are about as foreign as you can get.
Zoner IDs - Fletcher - 07-17-2008
I've been seeing a fair few Zoner ID Adv. Trains on my usual routes. I overheard one being pirated in Omega-7 once, guess what he said?
"I am Zoner! You can't pirate me! =)" I kid you not.
Zoner ID without being in Zoner faction = Another trader in my eyes.
Zoners, expect to be pirated, especially by independent pirates who got little knowledge on politics.:sleep:
Zoner IDs - chopper - 07-17-2008
Jinx is right, in a way. But there are few gaps in your post.
First, I believe Zoners are not that hostile/dumb to declare a war based on a fact that PIRATE (he might be a lone pirate working for his family, not caring about politics of Corsairs as a group) asked for tax.
They are much more likely to pay and get over it, since they want to KEEP their neutrality at every cost.
Of course, Pirates shouldn't be rude and ask more then Zoner can pay.
I see no problems in taxing a Zoner. I actually support it.
Trading without ever being stopped is boring, and no one should be sentenced to it.
Also, since Corsairs are a subject, I even more support taxing Zoners, since they do the same when they are selling food to Corsairs.
They are overcharging, and that is not nice. This is a way to make things even.