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+--- Thread: Question about Liberty Navy rights (/showthread.php?tid=104786)
Question about Liberty Navy rights - JohnRambo - 09-13-2013
Hi again, I got another question about the can-do and cant-do of liberty navy.
So the navy ID reads:
LN-ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Liberty Navy who:
Can demand contraband, levy fines, and destroy ships if they refuse to comply with contraband demands, refuse to cooperate, scream that the Navy is corrupt ad nauseum, or are affiliated with a house at war with Liberty.
Can escort traders within Liberty and the Independent Systems directly bordering Liberty.
Can hunt pirates and terrorists within Liberty and the Independent Systems directly bordering Liberty.
Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers, Battleships.
what i'm getting at is that they can hunt pirates and terrorists.
Land-Hackers-ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Lane Hackers who:
May engage in piracy.
Can engage pirates, terrorists and lawfuls within Liberty and the Independent Systems bordering Liberty. Or one system beyond a system containing a Hacker base.
Cannot ally with any military, police, or corporate players.
Cannot use any transport with more than 4,300 cargo.
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers.
So the Lane Hacker are pirates.
So for me it's logical that LN can hunt Lane Hackers. There's only one LN ID so that goes for both official and indies.
The rules say about official faction authority that:
Rules Wrote:4.7 Official player factions have authority over players of the same NPC affiliation, as long as RP justification is provided. This authority applies in forums and in-game, and applies to player faction diplomacy, and strategic and tactical direction. However, exercise of that authority, on the forums and in game, is restricted to official faction members with the rank of the official faction leader and one rank below him/her. The authority may be exercised through the use of in-game in-RP orders, which, if not obeyed, can result in in-game in-RP consequences (arrest, court martial, and even "lethal" force in extreme circumstances). Official player factions cannot, under any cicrumstances, require another player to follow non-canon RP if that player doesn't want to.
The way I understand that is taht official player factions can only excercise authority over indies if all of the following is true:
1. A RP justification is given
2. It can only be done by faction leader or one rank below
3. The orders don't force the player to follow non canon RP
Now the reason I'm posting this is because an ingame [LN] official guy told me this:
[12.09.2013 22:10:41] [LN]-Michael.Morse: Oh and incase you didn't notice
[12.09.2013 22:10:48] [LN]-Michael.Morse: I'm your superior officer
[12.09.2013 22:10:55] [LN]-Michael.Morse: So that's an order
[12.09.2013 22:10:59] [LN]-Michael.Morse: Stand Down
[12.09.2013 22:11:13] John.Rambo: Oh yeah? Whats your rank in the navy, Morse?
[12.09.2013 22:12:42] [LN]-Michael.Morse: I'm a Primary Fleet Lieutenant for your information
[12.09.2013 22:12:53] [LN]-Michael.Morse: So shot your trap pilot, before I do it for you
[12.09.2013 22:13:00] John.Rambo: Which means you aint squat authority over me Morse
[12.09.2013 22:13:17] [LN]-Michael.Morse: You do realize that ANY Primary fleet member
[12.09.2013 22:13:23] [LN]-Michael.Morse: Has authority over you
[12.09.2013 22:14:27] [LN]-Michael.Morse: I suggest you go read on up regs
[12.09.2013 22:14:28] John.Rambo: No you dont
[12.09.2013 22:14:42] John.Rambo: So you're first or second in command of the navy?
[12.09.2013 22:15:02] [LN]-Michael.Morse: Son, it wouldn't amtter if I was a wet behind the ears greengorn
[12.09.2013 22:15:11] [LN]-Michael.Morse: I'd STILL outrank you
So this guy was ordering me to stand down against a Lane Hacker Sabre who was at Manhattan who I told to surrender. The [LN] and a freelancer called Melissa were RPing as this female Lane Hackers friends or something.
So I did what he told me to do and checked the regulations all I could, and still think he didnt have authority to order me to stand down against the Lane Hacker because:
1. The RP justification that the Lane Hacker is the [LN] guy's personal friend isnt a reason why the navy shouldnt act against the Hacker.
2. The guy wasnt faction leader or one rank below, he was a Lieutenant. And he also claimed that every official has authority of indies, which is in straight contradiction to what the faction rules say
3. The orders he gave were asking me to go against canon RP, because as the LN ID says, its canon RP for LN to hunt pirates, which the Lane Hacker was.
So none of the 3 condistions were met, although all 3 would have to be met if he wants to order me around.
After that the Lane Hacker actually ended up attacking me, and when another indy navy guy told him to stop, the [LN] guy also ordered the other navy guy to stand down:
[12.09.2013 22:25:11] LNS-Wickerton: hacker, stop u atack
[12.09.2013 22:25:18] [LN]-Michael.Morse: Wickerton
[12.09.2013 22:25:21] [LN]-Michael.Morse: Hold off
[12.09.2013 22:25:25] Burstinatrix: Leah: You gonna make me?!
[12.09.2013 22:25:31] Melissa.Jones.: Lets see if Rambo can stick to his guns.
[12.09.2013 22:25:31] [LN]-Michael.Morse: Rambo here is learning a lesson
In my eyes this was also in contradiction to all 3 requirements of authority.
So I'd like to ask for some clarification on this.
Was he right when he said that he had the authority to tell us to stand down, and that any [LN] outranks indies?
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - belarusich - 09-13-2013
Lol.
[LN] said he is friend of Hacker?
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - Epimetheus - 09-13-2013
You can follow his words, or not. If you do not follow his command, you won't get sanction.
But because he is in a official faction, he can report to faction leader, and they request a reputation change on you. Admins will make you hostile with Navy
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - Lythrilux - 09-13-2013
Yep. Offical factions have rights over indies and can order you around.
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - Vrabcek - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 03:24 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Yep. Offical factions have rights over indies and can order you around.
Not at all.
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - sindroms - 09-13-2013
They can try*
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - DiogoBett - 09-13-2013
Yup, because i think it's stupid a Snub commanding a Dreadnought.
Official LN act like they are suficiently good to command a capital ship wich makes me think they are dumb.
They can command my Indie LNS, if they have REASON.
Haha.
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - Korny - 09-13-2013
There's no rule that you must follow a primary fleet members' order. If you feel like shooting the hacker, freaking shoot it and don't take it to the forums. 90% of the problems on here can be solved inRP.
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - Soul Reaper - 09-13-2013
He can -try- order you around, but -you- don't have to listen to him. Since;
1. He's not the leader or 2iC
2. Nothing you did was against LN lore and/or gameplay.
Therefore you can just tell him to bug off and continue your engagement.
Nor can the [LN] file an FR5 on you for the whole incident, since, if what you're saying is right, then the [LN] officer was not doing his job and by trying to order you to stand down because of some "friendship" with a hacker..well, that basically can even go under treason.
So do whatever you'd like.
RE: Question about Liberty Navy rights - Highland Laddie - 09-13-2013
You don not HAVE to follow the orders of official LN players, but there will also be inRP consequences of doing so, like already stated, LN can request your ship become hostile to Liberty Navy, or they will order you killed on sight.
Now...given that situation...I'd probably make an inRP communication to the Liberty Navy Command asking why one of their own was being all chummy with a Lane Hacker, and then refusing to come to your assistance. I wouldn't expect much of a response....but who knows? Some interesting RP could develop because of it.