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+---- Thread: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment (/showthread.php?tid=105400)
Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Colt556 - 09-28-2013
To specify, the fancy stuff from player bases. Docking modules, jump drives, cloaking devices. I've noticed on a lot of ships there's dedicated slots for these things. For example, I was on my Gallia Cruiser and saw it had an 'Equipment Type 1' slot. Yet when I go to equip a jump drive to it, woe be unto me I can't because a jump drive is, for some reason, being shoved in my cargo hold. I think it's really quite lame to restrict these things to battleships exclusively just because they're the only things with enough cargo space for it. I mean, if a civilian freighter can use a jump drive surely a military ship can, right?
I've also noticed there's different levels for jump drives, and cloaks as well. Makes sense that smaller ships like gunboats may field a class 2 jump drive while medium ships like cruisers field a class 3 and the big guys can use the class 4.
It just seems redundant to give ships dedicated equipment slots and then not allow them to use those slots because said equipment takes up too much hold space.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Sabru - 09-28-2013
its done (im guessing here) to stop lol OP combinations like CAU'd jumping cloak battleships.....
you get the idea.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Gforce - 09-28-2013
(09-28-2013, 03:38 AM)Sabre Wrote: its done (im guessing here) to stop lol OP combinations like CAU'd jumping cloak battleships.....
you get the idea.
Indeed, either a bit more armour, or some fancy utility that may or may not help on the situation. Cargo space is used to help balance them for the specific ship they are being mounted on and the number of fancy pieces of equipment you can mount at once. As for dedicated slots, I wouldn't call them that. They're more "These are your options" with that particular ship. If you want more 'options' then generally you have to trade it for something, mainly a bigger hitbox.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Colt556 - 09-28-2013
(09-28-2013, 03:38 AM)Sabre Wrote: its done (im guessing here) to stop lol OP combinations like CAU'd jumping cloak battleships.....
you get the idea.
That doesn't make any sense, though. If they don't want jumping cloaked battleships, don't give them enough slots to equip everything. That, in absolutely no way, justifies having a cargo limit. You could limit the ship to 2 equipment slots, so sure they could have a jump drive and a cloak, but then they have no scanner and the ability to perform blind jumps aint exactly game breaking. Or they could just make specific slots. For example, a hyperspace scanner is it's own slot, hangar modules their own slots, and then jump drives and cloaks share a slot. So you can only have one or the other.
It's as I said, you don't need both limiters, one or the other. Either use dedicated slots OR cargo, there's absolutely no good reason to use both. Because using both invalidates one. With the cargo limiter in place, the slot limiter is useless. As I said, my gallic cruiser has a slot for a jump drive yet I can't use one because it takes up too much cargo space.
If they want to balance them, I think they should balance them around the slots, not cargo space.
(09-28-2013, 03:59 AM)Gforce Wrote: Indeed, either a bit more armour, or some fancy utility that may or may not help on the situation. Cargo space is used to help balance them for the specific ship they are being mounted on and the number of fancy pieces of equipment you can mount at once. As for dedicated slots, I wouldn't call them that. They're more "These are your options" with that particular ship. If you want more 'options' then generally you have to trade it for something, mainly a bigger hitbox.
You mention the slots being options, but they're not. Again I refer to cruisers. They have these slots yet can't use the equipment because their holds are too small. They can balance them with slots far more effectively than cargo space anyways. Since they have full control over what ship can mount what using that system. I'm again left pointing out that there's simply no benefit to making them use cargo space, especially not if you're gonna limit them with slots anyways.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Colt556 - 09-28-2013
My posts aren't showing up....
Edit: There we go, that was weird.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Govedo13 - 09-28-2013
I see benefits in both ways actually.
The cargo space is good limiter it does not allow one ship to use everything.
Indeed the slot limitation do the same the problem is that the stuff is not well made or balanced. There are some heavy cruisers with less slots then some light cruisers, also all Battlecruisers are neglected and the slots are put there quite experimentally.
In general cruisers cannot use anything then cloaks effectively.
The way to fix the whole thing would be to make specific class equipment like cloaks for the jump drives and scanners.
It is sad but the whole base produced equipment is in beta since 2 years.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Colt556 - 09-28-2013
(09-28-2013, 06:08 AM)Govedo13 Wrote: I see benefits in both ways actually.
The cargo space is good limiter it does not allow one ship to use everything.
Indeed the slot limitation do the same the problem is that the stuff is not well made or balanced. There are some heavy cruisers with less slots then some light cruisers, also all Battlecruisers are neglected and the slots are put there quite experimentally.
In general cruisers cannot use anything then cloaks effectively.
The way to fix the whole thing would be to make specific class equipment like cloaks for the jump drives and scanners.
It is sad but the whole base produced equipment is in beta since 2 years.
I think the best system would be the slot system, I was pleasantly surprised to see them as I had thought it was strictly cargo based. Then deeply disappointed to see it's both slot AND cargo based. It's just silly to limit jump drives to freighters and battleships after all.
Obviously this would have to be fine-tuned, but the way I'd see it is all gunboats could mount the class 2 jump drive. All cruisers would mount the class 3, and everything bigger could mount the class 4. Obviously they could mount the smaller ones as well if you wanted. That way ALL ships can jump. I mean, if I put in the effort to get a base built, and produce the modules, I'd like them useable by more than just the odd battleship, y'know?
So say we go with my earlier idea, a jump scanner slot, a hangar slot, and then a jump drive/cloaking slot. Gunboats would have a 'light' jump drive/cloaking slot, they'd use the class 2 jump drive and the appropriate cloaking device. Cruisers would have a 'medium' slot, so a class 3 jump drive and appropriate cloaking device. And then of course bigger ships would have a large slot.
This would mean that if you're flying a cruiser, you'd be able to fit a scanner and a jump drive. Or a scanner and a cloaking device. Those would be your only possible combinations because your ship would only have those two slots, a scanner slot and then the jump drive/cloaking device slot. That means you can never, under any circumstance, jump and cloak. That would balance that issue right there.
Cargo would come into play by balancing around other things. For example, I could put top of the line armor on my cruiser to make me beefier. That, however, means far less fuel so I may only be able to do one or two jumps tops. Or I could not get any armor, or really anything that takes cargo space and devote all 900 units of cargo to fuel. Allows me to be a little more liberal with my jump drive, but weaker in a straight up fight.
With a system like that I think it'd be pretty balanced, wont know for sure unless they do it, but I can't see any obvious problems with it. And it wouldn't be too difficult to implement since the slots are already there, you'd really just have to remove the cargo limit from the modules and make slight alterations to the slots and you're good to go.
At the end of the day, I hate flying battleships, too big and clunky. But I don't want that to exclude me from using all the cool new features like jump drives. This way allows even smaller capital ships to play a unique role.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Gforce - 09-28-2013
(09-28-2013, 06:08 AM)Govedo13 Wrote: It is sad but the whole base produced equipment is in beta since 2 years.
Very true. If I remember correctly there was going to be more types of equipment, such as heavy docking modules for carriers to allow larger vessels to dock with them, but so far nothing has progressed.
As for Colt556 comments, I believe you need to take a moment to fully research the equipment. For one, you don't need a Hyperspace Survey Module to actually make the jump, you just need the jump drive and valid co-ordinates and second, Cloaks use the CM slot and Docking Modules use carrier bay slots.
My Liberty Dreadnought has 3 Equipment slots, but there are only 2 types of equipment (with there being different versions of the same type) that can go in them. What would be the use of 2 Jump Drives or 2 Survey Modules?
Just because they are there, does not mean you heave to use them.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - Colt556 - 09-28-2013
(09-28-2013, 06:48 AM)Gforce Wrote: Very true. If I remember correctly there was going to be more types of equipment, such as heavy docking modules for carriers to allow larger vessels to dock with them, but so far nothing has progressed.
As for Colt556 comments, I believe you need to take a moment to fully research the equipment. For one, you don't need a Hyperspace Survey Module to actually make the jump, you just need the jump drive and valid co-ordinates and second, Cloaks use the CM slot and Docking Modules use carrier bay slots.
My Liberty Dreadnought has 3 Equipment slots, but there are only 2 types of equipment (with there being different versions of the same type) that can go in them. What would be the use of 2 Jump Drives or 2 Survey Modules?
Just because they are there, does not mean you heave to use them.
You missed the point entirely.
What there is NOW doesn't matter, it's not set up to work properly the way it is now. Obvious by the fact that a cruiser has two equipment slots and nothing to use for them. Also you mentioning that jump drives don't need a scanner is kind of pointless as well, at least for my idea. I know how they work, I've researched them, and it ultimately doesn't matter. If you don't wanna buy a scanner and rely on some AWACS style ship in the fleet to relay the coords, that works just as well.
The idea is making these items useable by more than just battleships and freighters in a way that makes sense and allows for more styles of play while still being balanced.
RE: Remove Cargo Limit from Equipment - aakopa - 09-28-2013
You forgot that jump drives have power core restriction too, so transports cant jump.
Cruisers can use survey modules in type1 shots.