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+--- Thread: Illegal loadouts (/showthread.php?tid=10584)
Illegal loadouts - DarthCloakedGuy - 07-22-2008
Purchases are not the only way to acquire weapons. A great many events can lead up to a Freelancer working for the Liberty government to acquire, say, a Usiel gun. Does this mean he has betrayed his employers and landed on a Rogue base?
No.
Very no.
More likely, while on a mission from the Liberty government, he has killed a Liberty Rogue and, being a Freelancer in it for the money, salvaged what he could of the ship.
He now has a gun, a Usiel gun for example. Hmm... diagnostic shows it to be a fairly decent weapon, better than those sold by the Liberty government. Should he mount it?
The in-RP answer is, "Yes, because this is a gun that suits my needs better than what I am able to purchase."
The out-of-RP answer is, "No, because the server rules say no".
Also, if he were to mount a CODENAME: DIAMONDBACK on his ship, how would that not imply that he was part of the Rheinland Military, who used the weapons in the battle of the 80-year-war? How is looting those wrecks different from looting a fresher kill?
Illegal loadouts - sovereign - 07-22-2008
Because otherwise we'd see Sabres with Krakens and "looted" Tizona del Cids. Worse, we'd see Raven's Claws with Krakens and Tizona del Cids, because both can be acquired within the LSF's range of operations.
>.>
It ensures better RP on average. More in a second, want to get this post out first.
*****
Okay, here's something. For everyone except Freelancers and Mercenaries, you have a certain amount of pride in your faction's weapons. If you were told that your weapons were inferior, that your foes had weapons better in every way, how would that go for morale? It would suck, that's what.
Now for a point that goes for fully everyone.
How the hell does an Outcast get the parts to repair a Corsair weapon? The Outcasts aren't going to rough up Tripoli for spare parts so one of their own can use a weapon that may or may not be better. Same goes with Freelancers/Mercenaries, if you have weapons from one side, you'd better be on good terms with them or where else do you get your ship repaired/replaced when it gets blown up? You can't mix and match from that because if you tell the Corsair mechanics "yeah I got these Krakens off a wreck, I don't work with the Outcasts" they'll go "sure you didn't, get it out of here before I shoot you". Doesn't work.
Before anyone brings it up, Edison Trent was on good terms with Hephaestus, and could thus repair anything everywhere.
My explanation for codes being usable by anyone is that they all basically work the same way, so any faction that has produced or worked with a codename weapon can fix them all, even if they can't build that particular model. They have got to be produced at this point by the way, nothing else can explain their prevalence.
Illegal loadouts - n00bl3t - 07-22-2008
Don't fancy seeing Outcasts with Tizzies. Don't mind seeing anyone with codies. That's the difference.
Illegal loadouts - DarthCloakedGuy - 07-22-2008
' Wrote:Because otherwise we'd see Sabres with Krakens and "looted" Tizona del Cids. Worse, we'd see Raven's Claws with Krakens and Tizona del Cids, because both can be acquired within the LSF's range of operations.Okay, but who says a Freelancer can't fix a Usiel with a little T.L.C. or at least jury-rig it so that it fires? Why does the fact that this particular Freelancer flies a surplus LPI or Navy fighter ship prevent him from mounting such a weapon on the ship? Are hardpoints not universal? Why can he not use these guns, and why does having such guns make everyone ASS-U-ME that the Freelancer landed on a base that sells them?
>.>
It ensures better RP on average. More in a second, want to get this post out first.
*****
Okay, here's something. For everyone except Freelancers and Mercenaries, you have a certain amount of pride in your faction's weapons. If you were told that your weapons were inferior, that your foes had weapons better in every way, how would that go for morale? It would suck, that's what.
Now for a point that goes for fully everyone.
How the hell does an Outcast get the parts to repair a Corsair weapon? The Outcasts aren't going to rough up Tripoli for spare parts so one of their own can use a weapon that may or may not be better. Same goes with Freelancers/Mercenaries, if you have weapons from one side, you'd better be on good terms with them or where else do you get your ship repaired/replaced when it gets blown up? You can't mix and match from that because if you tell the Corsair mechanics "yeah I got these Krakens off a wreck, I don't work with the Outcasts" they'll go "sure you didn't, get it out of here before I shoot you". Doesn't work.
Before anyone brings it up, Edison Trent was on good terms with Hephaestus, and could thus repair anything everywhere.
My explanation for codes being usable by anyone is that they all basically work the same way, so any faction that has produced or worked with a codename weapon can fix them all, even if they can't build that particular model. They have got to be produced at this point by the way, nothing else can explain their prevalence.
Also, CODENAME weapons are the most powerful, coveted weapons in Freelancer. Tizona Del Cids, from everything I've been told, are utterly worthless for anything but taking shields down.
And Sov, what/who are Hephaestus? I've never heard mention of them in-game, out-of-game, or anywheres.
I just want to know, what makes an ancient, powerful, very rare weapon that can only be acquired from the most remote regions in Sirius more IRP than a run-of-the-mill weapon mass-produced that can be shot off of the ship of any ol' faction?
And what if these guns are quite obviously not in the best of condition when you mount them? Using your example, the Outcast pilot could point out hairline fractures and stress damages to the weapon's casing, as well as slight deformations caused when the metal it was bolted to was blown off in a fiery explosion?
I agree, no Outcast or Outcast-hired Freelancer would be waltzing around Malta with shiny, factory-direct Tizona del Cids. But why can't a Freelancer hired by the Navy mount some very obviously beaten-up Usiels?
Illegal loadouts - RonG777 - 07-22-2008
Well, 1st I will apologize for upsetting anyone here for what I am about to post....
And I am not here to promote any change to the server rules or general views of RP. I accept the overall view and will support it....
One thing I never could understand in this view of RP is that if a fighter, no matter of nationality, has access to a weapon that is better than what they have, why couldn't they use it? If it was looted from a wreck or salvaged from a kill, I see no reason why it couldn't be used.. as far as RP is concerned. In RL, history has shown in wars that all groups has used other's weapons if they perform better. Terrorists groups will get their hands on any kind of weapon they can to accomplish their goal.
As far as RP in this game, for example, *quote*"How the hell does an Outcast get the parts to repair a Corsair weapon? The Outcasts aren't going to rough up Tripoli for spare parts so one of their own can use a weapon that may or may not be better. "*.. One could RP that they raided a supply train to maintain equipment. As long as the player does not dock at an OORP base or station to obtain equipment, why is this wrong?
The main problem with letting anyone get any weapon they want is the fact that it will be abused for PVP. I DO understand this issue..(it has before)... this will be impossible to enforce and causes a problem...
So here is my question... Where do we draw the line?... Is it acceptable to let a player have an OORP ship or equipment as long as they write a 2 page story explaining why while other players are sanctioned for the same offense?
I am not trying to start a fight, I just merely have a problem about this issue in which I hope someone can explain to me to understand it better..
Illegal loadouts - sovereign - 07-22-2008
' Wrote:Well, 1st I will apologize for upsetting anyone here for what I am about to post....
And I am not here to promote any change to the server rules or general views of RP. I accept the overall view and will support it....
One thing I never could understand in this view of RP is that if a fighter, no matter of nationality, has access to a weapon that is better than what they have, why couldn't they use it? If it was looted from a wreck or salvaged from a kill, I see no reason why it couldn't be used.. as far as RP is concerned. In RL, history has shown in wars that all groups has used other's weapons if they perform better. Terrorists groups will get their hands on any kind of weapon they can to accomplish their goal.
As far as RP in this game, for example, *quote*"How the hell does an Outcast get the parts to repair a Corsair weapon? The Outcasts aren't going to rough up Tripoli for spare parts so one of their own can use a weapon that may or may not be better. "*.. One could RP that they raided a supply train to maintain equipment. As long as the player does not dock at an OORP base or station to obtain equipment, why is this wrong?
The main problem with letting anyone get any weapon they want is the fact that it will be abused for PVP. I DO understand this issue..(it has before)... this will be impossible to enforce and causes a problem...
So here is my question... Where do we draw the line?... Is it acceptable to let a player have an OORP ship or equipment as long as they write a 2 page story explaining why while other players are sanctioned for the same offense?
I am not trying to start a fight, I just merely have a problem about this issue in witch I hope someone can explain to me to understand it better..
I draw the line at making stories to justify PvP superiority as opposed to making stories as they flow that just so happen to end up in PvP superiority (see Wesley Richter, best example yet).
As for the Hephaestus comment, Hephaestus was the Greek god of the forge. Make sense now? Edison Trent hacks. (No offense, Fletcher. :P)
The fact that you view debbies as "squirtguns" has no influence on their usefulness, Tizonas are super-soakers by comparison and rip of shields faster than you can go "tizzies are overpowered", leaving your hull free to get ripped on by hullbusters, cannonballs, mini razors... you'll learn their usefulness, even one becomes a leading edge. (EDIT: Note, I have no issues with the balance of said weapons, the Corsairs need it to make up for their sub-par ships. When the Outcasts, with phenomenal ships, use them, its a bit more of an issue.)
I'm not happy about the codes either, but eh, they aren't broken to hell and they don't scream one particular faction like "Outcast Particle Cannon" or "Corsair Pulse Cannon" do. Whatevhs, my faction guns outpower your codes for a fraction of the price.
Illegal loadouts - Rashnok - 07-22-2008
Just imagine it this way... whenever you read an infocard, just pay attention to the paragraph on it. Totally ignore all the hull/shield damage and stats. That's how your character sees it all.
Also, why would everything be mounted in the exact same way? That would imply that everyone, from the Outcasts to Bretonia to the Nomads comes from the same origin. It might be reasonable to have perhaps a single, somewhat damaged, enemy weapon on your craft, but then when/if it gets blown off, it better stay blown off.
Illegal loadouts - RonG777 - 07-22-2008
' Wrote:I draw the line at making stories to justify PvP superiority as opposed to making stories as they flow that just so happen to end up in PvP superiority (see Wesley Richter, best example yet).
As for the Hephaestus comment, Hephaestus was the Greek god of the forge. Make sense now? Edison Trent hacks. (No offense, Fletcher. :P)
The fact that you view debbies as "squirtguns" has no influence on their usefulness, Tizonas are super-soakers by comparison and rip of shields faster than you can go "tizzies are overpowered", leaving your hull free to get ripped on by hullbusters, cannonballs, mini razors... you'll learn their usefulness, even one becomes a leading edge. (EDIT: Note, I have no issues with the balance of said weapons, the Corsairs need it to make up for their sub-par ships. When the Outcasts, with phenomenal ships, use them, its a bit more of an issue.)
I'm not happy about the codes either, but eh, they aren't broken to hell and they don't scream one particular faction like "Outcast Particle Cannon" or "Corsair Pulse Cannon" do. Whatevhs, my faction guns outpower your codes for a fraction of the price.
I do agree with you on facton weapons / equipment.. Most all factions have been balanced in one form or another to be mostly equal to other factions.... That is the way it should, to help discourage OORP ships / equipment usage.
However, my question is still not answered. Why are certain players allowed OORP equipment while others are sanctioned?
PS. Thank you for everyones effort to help me understand the role play......
Illegal loadouts - sovereign - 07-22-2008
' Wrote:Also, why would everything be mounted in the exact same way? That would imply that everyone, from the Outcasts to Bretonia to the Nomads comes from the same origin. It might be reasonable to have perhaps a single, somewhat damaged, enemy weapon on your craft, but then when/if it gets blown off, it better stay blown off.
Another good point. Unless you go out and loot one whenever you die, that's a bit ooRP too. Continuing our example of the Outcast/Corsair thing, the Outcasts don't exactly stockpile Tizona del Cids, they group them with the garbage which is how they view all Corsair technology. They do however keep Krakens, Wyrms, Infernos, etc. around so you can get back in space as soon as the paperwork goes through for a fresh new ship (estimated time is upwards of four hours).
Same goes for looted or stolen ships, sure you may have gotten away with it once as you defected, but keep the ship after it gets blown up and, well, how exactly do you get your fresh new military vessel in the mail while shooting said military with it?
Notable exception once more goes to Wesley Richter.
Illegal loadouts - DarthCloakedGuy - 07-22-2008
So this is entirely a game-balance rule?
If this is the case, does the rule even apply for level-4 Usiel guns?