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+--- Thread: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) (/showthread.php?tid=107527)
Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - nOmnomnOm - 11-19-2013
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=107362
From this post there was a comment pertaining the ID and how it would affect the faction. In summary, I am proposing to have in the faction a freelancer ID and a pirate ID available but because if the pirate ID, apparently the whole faction can be considered unlawful.
Let me explain real quick the reason I have chosen this since I have reasons behind it.
1) the IFF of a freelancer is used for both pirate ID and Freelancer ID. The faction in lore is a group of freelancers sub-grouped into "chapters" (sub groups) That share a common and individual ZOI (ex. Magellan Chapter's ZOI is Liberty and Bretonia, while Kepler Chapter's ZOI is Kusari and Liberty)
2) I am aiming for a quasi-lawful faction where the player's individual behavior keeps him as a generic freelancer or an unlawful, known to the faction as the 1%ers. This already pretty much exists (the concept) for the Junker ID which I considered using BUT things like being able to pirate in Kusari and enemies with Hogosha made me back away a bit. That being said. Its like the faction is a merge of 2 IDs that are in a club/brotherhood.
3) The Pirate ID people in the "club" are a minority of the faction... well unless everyone decides they are going unlawful. Its up to them really.... in anycase its like a Motorcycle club in a sense, where the whole club cannot be condemned but the individuals can. (this is also why i chose the IFF)
SO after explaining all this I have 2 questions. I have read the rules to making a unofficial faction it does state to pick a ID. it also mentions sub IDs or something... I am having a bit of confusion in this.
so 1) am I going in the right path in choosing the IDs and IFF? Is it acceptable by the rules?
and 2) will the pirate ID in this case still be condemning the whole faction to a KoS scenario which i am trying to avoid.
Thank you.
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - Binski - 11-19-2013
Well with most factions, when a member does something, and it causes a reaction from other players or groups, they tend to seek out their superiors. I think the whole thing about using the pirate ID making the whole group unlawful stems from the fact that if a bunch of your members pirate a ship/ships belonging 'corporation X' , X may then have their leaders contact your own. They'll want to know if you, the leader of said group, openly sanctions piracy. If so, they'll likely brand the whole group pirates, or unlawful.
Thats the thing, if your guys are going around attacking ships, the Tag they fly will be the one claiming responsibility. It would be up to you to either defend or discipline your subordinates accordingly.
So if I were you I'd stay on the same path. As a 'para-military' or quasi 'criminal' orgainization, if all of your members fly freelancer IFF they'll be treated as such until they pirate. After that, as with most criminal organizations, it would likely be officially denied, and require proof to prove those members committed the crime.
If your organization has a legit 'front' it may then act like its diciplining its members, maintaining a front that you don't 'condone such actions' etc when in reality your organization does so in secret.
After a while, if you are considered unlawful it will be the result of the roleplay and your activities. Proof of sanctioned attacks. Maybe the police will have to build a case to bust you all!
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - Garrett Jax - 11-19-2013
My understanding is that only official factions may possess a secondary ID.
Also, it may be unrealistic to expect other factions to view yours as lawful or even quasi-lawful if a secondary part of your faction has a pirate ID.
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - nOmnomnOm - 11-19-2013
@theunforgiven
The faction does not do pirating activities but only under certain times when there is a large enough convoy. Then the 1&ers will get interested. The faction as a whole though doesnt go around pirating because the possibility to get caught is really high. If an ambush were to happen on a convoy, the 1%ers would make sure no information on them was leaked. In RP anyway.
But i like the idea of lawful or quasi lawful till proven guilty. It gets a bit complex after....
@Garrett_Jax
Only official factions huh? hmm...
well onto your second point, the Junkers can pirate in non-house space territory. They have a restriction to where they pirate and therefor are quasi-lawful.
adopting the Junker ID is kinda tricky because their ID states:
1. Can attack pirates and terrorists in self-defense, to protect a trader of an allied faction, or in defense of their bases.
2. Can actively hunt Xenos and Hogosha.
3. Cannot engage in piracy within house space, excepting Kusari and Gallia. Yarr it up.
4. Cannot use any transport with more than 3,600 cargo except the Pilgrim Liner and Pirate Train.
The only thing i have with this is #2 and #3....
But a thought came to me... if i adopt the ID i can ignore #2 and #3 and have a good rep instead. The ID doesn't state i HAVE TO hunt and pirate in there.
Actually the Junker ID makes sense now!
A small detail now to ask is if i declare war on a faction, will i be able with the Junker ID to attack first of wait for them to strike. I guess it doesn't really matter THAT much but it might prevent me from going on the offensive.
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - nOmnomnOm - 11-19-2013
1. Can attack any ship in self-defense or to protect a ship of the same affiliation.
2. Can demand cargo and credits from any ship, and attack them if they do not comply.
3. Cannot use any transports with more than 3,600 cargo, except for Pirate Train.
Thats the Pirate ID. It says here that it can attack a ship in SELF DEFENCE but i saw times where pirate IDs attacking in force on people like the LR- . Is there some modification that has to be made? Have people been playing Pirate ID ships wrong?
Edit: Sorry for double post.
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - Binski - 11-19-2013
(11-19-2013, 07:49 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: 1. Can attack any ship in self-defense or to protect a ship of the same affiliation.
2. Can demand cargo and credits from any ship, and attack them if they do not comply.
3. Cannot use any transports with more than 3,600 cargo, except for Pirate Train.
Thats the Pirate ID. It says here that it can attack a ship in SELF DEFENCE but i saw times where pirate IDs attacking in force on people like the LR- . Is there some modification that has to be made? Have people been playing Pirate ID ships wrong?
Edit: Sorry for double post.
Thing is if you want to initiate as a pirate all you have to do is demand credits/cargo. If you really want to fight just demand a payment thats not likely to be paid. Like if war has broken out, demand 'compensation' like 100 million at each encounter. You either get the money or an excuse to fight. Could probably work the same way as a junker.
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - Garrett Jax - 11-19-2013
Quote:Thing is if you want to initiate as a pirate all you have to do is demand credits/cargo. If you really want to fight just demand a payment thats not likely to be paid. Like if war has broken out, demand 'compensation' like 100 million at each encounter. You either get the money or an excuse to fight. Could probably work the same way as a junker.
Careful there. I do believe you would find yourself on the wrong side of ADMIN justice with those types of demands.
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - nOmnomnOm - 11-19-2013
(11-19-2013, 08:49 PM)Garrett_Jax Wrote:Quote:Thing is if you want to initiate as a pirate all you have to do is demand credits/cargo. If you really want to fight just demand a payment thats not likely to be paid. Like if war has broken out, demand 'compensation' like 100 million at each encounter. You either get the money or an excuse to fight. Could probably work the same way as a junker.
Careful there. I do believe you would find yourself on the wrong side of ADMIN justice with those types of demands.
Its true, i think you cant demand that much man... Its an abuse of the system :/
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - Binski - 11-19-2013
very well you're right, but even with a reasonable demand like 10 million it could work, and in the end, you get paid or you'll fight. But i admit that probably won't be good for an entire war, maybe 1 or 2 encounters every so often. Besides if its war, and both sides rp around that, and know they are enemies, consent for battle to begin won't be that hard to get. As in, if its ok by the ID to ATTACK them you won't need demands, just rp the encounter. If this group is simply hostile but not actually on your ID to attack, you'd have to make a demand equal to piracy or confiscation and have them not comply to open fire. Whether or not a simple demand to submit to a cargo scan or for some cargo is sufficient, may depend on many things. If the group you want to target is covered by the Junker ID, thats probably the best option. If not, its true, you can't go to war with just a pirate ID.
RE: Rules concerning Faction IDs and IFFs (to admin or dev or ppl who know) - nOmnomnOm - 11-19-2013
(11-19-2013, 09:41 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: very well you're right, but even with a reasonable demand like 10 million it could work, and in the end, you get paid or you'll fight. But i admit that probably won't be good for an entire war, maybe 1 or 2 encounters every so often. Besides if its war, and both sides rp around that, and know they are enemies, consent for battle to begin won't be that hard to get. As in, if its ok by the ID to ATTACK them you won't need demands, just rp the encounter. If this group is simply hostile but not actually on your ID to attack, you'd have to make a demand equal to piracy or confiscation and have them not comply to open fire. Whether or not a simple demand to submit to a cargo scan or for some cargo is sufficient, may depend on many things. If the group you want to target is covered by the Junker ID, thats probably the best option. If not, its true, you can't go to war with just a pirate ID.
The only reason im asking about war is if another ... say faction of club... tries to challenege the factions territory. I may then ask for money in exchange to allow them sharing the space. If nothing is payed then I can go to war.
The territories I am talking about are Kepler, Magellan, and Bering. All non-houses systems. Perfect for a Junker ID faction to make such demands.