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+--- Thread: Limiting Docking of Capships Idea (/showthread.php?tid=10852)
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - me_b_kevin - 07-31-2008
i just had a random idea, i'm not sure if it's been discussed before or if it's even possible but i'll swing it by you anyway.
what if....capships especially the large ones (battleships & carriers) were only able to dock at certain types of stations?
i'll give a few examples:
-i don't think any capships aside from a GB should be able to dock at planets. their mass and size would make it impossible for them to enter or leave the atmosphere. it would also limit some docking troubles for the larger ones.
-i also dont think capships, in some cases even GB's, should be able to dock at asteroid bases. most are incapable of handling ships of their size.
-i think battleships and carriers should only be able to dock at the largest of stations. first one that came to my mind would be shipyards.
all these docking restrictions would force a bit more RP into ship purchase and operation. in most cases a repair ship (finally a good use for them to be bought) or any other vessel could resupply the capships with batts and botts as needed. for actual repairs they would have to head to a suitable "drydock" that was able to handle that ships size.
but i thought this would be an interesting addition if at all possible.
so in closing the idea is to limit docking of capships per their class:
-planets: fighters GB, trader vessels
-small stations: fighters, GB (limited), trader vessels
-medium stations: fighters, GB, trader vessels, cruisers
-large stations: fighters, GB, trader vessels, cruisers, battlecruisers
-shipsyards: fighters, GB, trader vessels, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, carriers
whatcha think?
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - Blodo - 07-31-2008
Sounds good, although what are we going to do about factions that have a Cruiser but also have pretty much only asteroid bases? Would be sorta bad for them not to be able to ever dock it:P
The placement of docking stations can't be annoying, max one system away from the normal docking point, else it just gets tedious.
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - Telbasta - 07-31-2008
Quote:-i don't think any capships aside from a GB should be able to dock at planets. their mass and size would make it impossible for them to enter or leave the atmosphere. it would also limit some docking troubles for the larger ones.
In-RP, any ship over freighter size actually connects with the mooring platform in space, while small shuttles are used to carry personnel and supplies to and from the planet surface. That just cant be simulated because of the game's limitations.
Quote:-i also dont think capships, in some cases even GB's, should be able to dock at asteroid bases. most are incapable of handling ships of their size.
This would cause problems for many criminal groups. The liberty rogues, for example - all of their bases outside of their guard system are asteroid bases, where would their gunboats dock?
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - me_b_kevin - 07-31-2008
' Wrote:Sounds good, although what are we going to do about factions that have a Cruiser but also have pretty much only asteroid bases? Would be sorta bad for them not to be able to ever dock it:P
The placement of docking stations can't be annoying, max one system away from the normal docking point, else it just gets tedious.
it's all part of the idea, limiting the supply chain (places to dock) for the larger ships. either they'll have to stay close to a dockable base or rely on supply ships
' Wrote:In-RP, any ship over freighter size actually connects with the mooring platform in space, while small shuttles are used to carry personnel and supplies to and from the planet surface. That just cant be simulated because of the game's limitations.
This would cause problems for many criminal groups. The liberty rogues, for example - all of their bases outside of their guard system are asteroid bases, where would their gunboats dock?
the mooring fixtures at planets would be limited to large transports and smaller craft only, no more large warships.
GB's should be able to dock with some of the larger asteroids like buffalo.
sure this will cause some headaches but that is, in a round about way, the purpose. increase of RP in playing of capships and also i think it may cut down on capwhoring, especially if the only place to dock the ship you have is in a less than friendly guard system. plus it just makes more sense for a cruiser to not be able to dock at a base half it's size. i still think the best part would be the change in how the capships are operated, having to wait for supplies and/or not going too far away from a dockable station just adds some new flavor to the mix
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - sovereign - 07-31-2008
*realizes that the Barghest is GB sized*
*ponders what would happen if he tried to base the entire LR fleet out of Buffalo*
*fails*
You're on the right track to a good idea, but there's a couple quirks- first, about half of the criminal groups in Sirius fly bombers that are the size of gunboats, and if size is the issue here then they can't land anywhere. Also, until IDs are moved around to be sold at more bases, should your RP need you to change ID you wouldn't be able to with a larger ship.
As for caps docking on planets, they can go for basic repairs and restocking via the mooring fixture (the docking animation is completely off, don't pay attention to it) but for any serious work, look at Battleship Yukon- it sits in planetary orbit getting crews sent to it, as opposed to hanging around the mooring fixture.
Speaking of mooring fixtures and docking rings, Praetyre, Gronath and I had a rather lengthy conversation one day and came up with this-
<massive rant on the way Sirius works>
Ships in Freelancer (with a few exceptions) are unable to fly the way planes do in our world- they are space superiority fighters after all, and not designed to be aerodynamic in the slightest, not to get started on transports and capital ships (which are basically bricks with guns). From the developer Liberty Backstory we can reasonably assume that docking rings are a type of space elevator, carrying smaller ships from the surface to space and back down. This is further reinforced in a slightly ooRP way that large ships can't dock with the docking ring- they must attach to the mooring fixture and go down via shuttles or possibly a passenger section of the space elevator. The only ships capable of going down and up freely are specially designed shuttles, probably only a little larger than starfliers and similar to today's "space planes" in function. This is how criminals get aboard planets, as well as how the junkers do their serious smuggling (docking rings ostensibly have customs).
Now, Andre DelArco brought up a good point when he asked about this- since the fighters and freighters and whatnot aren't aerodynamic, but we see them flying around in atmo in various cutscenes, how does that work? Here's how. Go to the ship dealer, and look under a fighter. Notice something? The little white ring thingies? They're also there when your ships take off to head for the space elevator, and they make limited appearances in cutscenes where they are used to levitate the artifact. How it works is irrelevant, but the small ships capable of flying around at low altitude use a sort of "ground effect" (the helicopter bit especially) that allows them to use this hover technology to keep them afloat, so long as they stay fairly close to the ground. Fighters and freighters, being designed to mostly rely on the docking rings, are optimized in other directions than fully utilizing this, and so cannot use this to escape atmosphere except on the smallest of planets.
</massive expose on how Sirius works>
Hope that helps. Feel free to ask questions about it, my skype is sovfalcon.
Now, back to the original issue- yeah, it seems a bit odd that big ships can dock onto little bases like West Point. The "RP answer to a somewhat ooRP activity" is that these stations have mooring fixtures too- notice that big ships always head toward the top sections of these bases. Ostensibly they moor alongside the base and unload, rather than going inside (!) the base.
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - Telbasta - 07-31-2008
I really dont think this will cut down on 'capwhoring' at all, just annoy the players who legitimately use these vessels.
Myself for example - The only hogosha bases in the mod are the small-style stations, which my gunboat would end up unable to dock at. Likewise, hogosha can use up to battleship class vessels - so what if I chose a cruiser or Battleship as my faction flagship? I'd be unable to dock with any of my own faction's bases.
More restrictions like this arent going to help, capwhoring is something that needs to be handled in-RP by the faction leaders.
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - me_b_kevin - 07-31-2008
' Wrote:*realizes that the Barghest is GB sized*
*ponders what would happen if he tried to base the entire LR fleet out of Buffalo*
*fails*
i would consider bombers to be freighter sized crafts and they should be able to dock anywhere. we can all agree that some ships in-game aren't to scale
' Wrote:Myself for example - The only hogosha bases in the mod are the small-style stations, which my gunboat would end up unable to dock at. Likewise, hogosha can use up to battleship class vessels - so what if I chose a cruiser or Battleship as my faction flagship? I'd be unable to dock with any of my own faction's bases.
some things may need to be adjusted, in my opinion (which never seems to match anyone elses) certain factions that can use capships, shouldn't. i.e. hogosha, junkers...
but if you were to want a battleship for a base then it would need to be resupplied by support craft. unless you were able to get friendly enough with an ally to use their shipyards
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - Laowai - 07-31-2008
All i have to say is this:
Leave the Freakin' Capships ALONE.
for the love of god enough already.
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - sovereign - 07-31-2008
' Wrote:All i have to say is this:
Leave the Freakin' Capships ALONE.
for the love of god enough already.
I'm going to say "/signed" here, the balance of everything is a lot better than people think it is. The closest thing to imbalance is fighters vs bombers, with a few fighters needing a few tweaks like an extra gun or 1000 hull and a few of both needing new hitboxes. Other than that, there aren't any serious balance problems, everything screwy is for the most part on the player side, not the rule/mod side.
Limiting Docking of Capships Idea - Telbasta - 07-31-2008
Quote:some things may need to be adjusted, in my opinion (which never seems to match anyone elses) certain factions that can use capships, shouldn't. i.e. hogosha, junkers...
but if you were to want a battleship for a base then it would need to be resupplied by support craft. unless you were able to get friendly enough with an ally to use their shipyards
Why shouldnt we be able to use caps? we cant pirate in anything over gunboat sized, just like everyone else.
Junkers have plenty of caps, but they tend to use a "we salvaged it" RP for them, and tend to use things like the rheinland pirate cruisers.
Hogosha on the other hand have a part in everything that happens in kusari. We're deeply involved with the actions of the government, navy, police, samura, and even kishiro. Samura builds all large-scale ships used by kusari, including all of the naval forces capships - from gunboats to battleships.
Hogosha are also fairly wealthy, as opposed to junkers. I have a small bit of RP behind my use of a kusari gunboat on my hogosha character, in that I requested it's construction seperate from naval forces ships by samura shipyards, to use as a flagship for my Hogosha clan.
I'm hoping we get our own gunboat/bomber in addition to the fighter we're supposedly receiving in 4.85, so we can stop using other ships, but we'll have to wait and see.