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+--- Thread: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction (/showthread.php?tid=112336)
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upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Major_Mayhem - 02-22-2014
![[Image: OSI_Logo.png]](http://discoverygc.com/wiki/images/b/b0/OSI_Logo.png){kind=logo}
I’m not even going to bother to post in a thread that adds two pages in less than half an hour. I’m too old to keep track of such a fast-moving thread, thus a new one. A slower one. One with sophisticated argumentation. I’m sure the underlying problems that provoked such a drastic change in the lore and ship-line of the Zoners will still be valid in a month or so.
I’m the leader of Omicron Supply Industries.Neither I nor my faction would directly suffer from a nerf of the Zoner Capital Ship line. We’re not even endorsing Jump Trading as it reduces player interaction.
Therefore, Me and my Colleagues of OSI HC probably represent the most neutral Zoners in this whole dispute. And guess what: we’re opposing it. While it surely would be fun to refit the OSI transport fleet with defendable battle transport to grief all the pirates in their pirate transports. But it would give yet another incentive of what OSI HC is actually trying to change: solotrading.
We were - up to this announcement - setting up an access-to-most escort wings so players could just log an escort and ride off into the sunset with their buddies. With the announcement of battletransports putting a sudden halt into this endeavor. As well-defended super transports would make any escort obsolete.
Another side of the whole re-loring of the Zoner ships is that now every Zoner is forced to be a trader. Zoners are not all just traders. The lore clearly explains the need for well-defended ships, even the ones capable of facing the Marduk, aka the Nephilim. Those are Zoners too, the Zoners who explore the galaxy and sometimes the most dangerous parts of space. Consequently they need a ship capable of surviving these conditions.
Thirdly: TAZ and Phoenix wanted to make the ZonerCapships only available to their member, I do see the problem in that, as I - just for the sake of it - bought myself a ZonerCarrier. I accept that the Devs are not willing to cut the rights of the indies and favor factions. But to punish the official factions and all the well behaving indies for the mistake of a few (mostly ZA) is - indirectly - holding the official factions responsible for the mistakes of those few.
In general inRP policy, all actions of indies are counted to be null and void. If - for example - a Molly Indy would gun down an OSI ship, we would not go all ballistic and nullify our treaties with the Molly. We would just go “damn Indies” and continue on our path, at most shoot the Molly Council an OORP message about that guy.
Now because a few lolwuts without consent or endorsement from the official factions screw everything that is Zoner lore, and admins even deny a - in my eyes - an inRPly justified FR5 against ZA, every single zoner gets punished for their mistakes. Don’t you just hate the ZA?
![[Image: transmissionbottom.png]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18503112/Freelancer/transmissionbottom.png)
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Spud - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 05:34 PM)Major_Mayhem Wrote: Don’t you just hate the ZA?
No, I hate how people behaved towards them.
Nice of you to tell us that you have no Nephies and about everything that you don't want to do with them as OSI.
But I'm sure you or your members are not only playing as OSI.
Your agendas on your other chars in other factions maybe be very very very much different than what your zoner chars may pretend to persue.
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Gytrash - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 05:53 PM)Spud Wrote:(02-22-2014, 05:34 PM)Major_Mayhem Wrote: Don’t you just hate the ZA?
No, I hate how people behaved towards them.
Nice of you to tell us that you have no Nephies and about everything that you don't want to do with them as OSI.
But I'm sure you or your members are not only playing as OSI.
Your agendas on your other chars in other factions maybe be very very very much different than what your zoner chars may pretend to persue.
The point of people hating the ZA spud, is not because they had Zoner ships, that's fine, the problem is Zoner problem solving is supposed to go something like this
- Talk the problem out
- Search for a compromise
- Try not talking to them for a little bit if that doesn't work
- Friendzone them, tell them that you cannot commit to a relationship if they have this attitude
- Bountyzone them
- Negotiate again
- Deny docking rights
- Then and only then shoot them yourself.
The problem that people had with the ZA was they went a small amount of step 1,miss a few, step 8. They weren't role playing zoners correctly, they have used have done be that with BHG CORE and nobody would have minded. But they chose to do it with Zoner ships so everyone got up in arms, most of the server with the whole Zoners cannot have nice things argument but Zoners with the you cannot use nice things like that argument. Make sense?
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Zen_Mechanics - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 06:18 PM)Gytrash Wrote:(02-22-2014, 05:53 PM)Spud Wrote:(02-22-2014, 05:34 PM)Major_Mayhem Wrote: Don’t you just hate the ZA?
No, I hate how people behaved towards them.
Nice of you to tell us that you have no Nephies and about everything that you don't want to do with them as OSI.
But I'm sure you or your members are not only playing as OSI.
Your agendas on your other chars in other factions maybe be very very very much different than what your zoner chars may pretend to persue.
The point of people hating the ZA spud, is not because they had Zoner ships, that's fine, the problem is Zoner problem solving is supposed to go something like this
- Talk the problem out
- Search for a compromise
- Try not talking to them for a little bit if that doesn't work
- Friendzone them, tell them that you cannot commit to a relationship if they have this attitude
- Bountyzone them
- Negotiate again
- Deny docking rights
- Then and only then shoot them yourself.
The problem that people had with the ZA was they went a small amount of step 1,miss a few, step 8. They weren't role playing zoners correctly, they have used have done be that with BHG CORE and nobody would have minded. But they chose to do it with Zoner ships so everyone got up in arms, most of the server with the whole Zoners cannot have nice things argument but Zoners with the you cannot use nice things like that argument. Make sense?
Yes and no, Yes to skipping a few steps, like shoving veterans to the hole, because bullying isnt nice to anyone. No, Zoners are not defined as mere "peacekeepers", this is a false marketing im afraid, not to mention the fact that we don't look for any fight, at best, we shoot nommie npcs to piss the order. ZA has, and still is - on building things, such as station - it is what happens when you shove 20 ossies against us that we bring our fleets on. What do you want us to do, take it in? But then, others are already known to be good friends off-record with the guy with the 20 ossies, so clearly you can see that we didnt much have a choice.
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Spud - 02-22-2014
+1 to Tel-Aviv
Gytrash, the funny thing is that you tell them they must compromise, but you are absolutely not willing to compromise in telling them exactly how they ought to behave as Zoners.
Look at the last thread where Tel-Aviv offered a re-write of the faction lore. There may have been flaws, sure. But not a single person except me pointed them out in a civilized way. It was "we hate you we hate you we hate you" without a single constructive post from you guys.
Compromising Zoners indeed.
This thread is just another "lets all make a group and jump on the minority guys", exactly what you are accusing them of doing. In truth, you guys are behaving exactly like the "zoner alliance" that you try to paint as boogeyman. You're the really boogeymen.
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - puppytaste - 02-22-2014
Dont 'Bravo Serria' me Tel. You do all your supply with indy ships and you know it as well as I do. We are one of the most active factions on the server, were always in the Omicrons. Your lies are as thin as a cheap bedsheet.
EDIT: Better hurry up and tag a bunch of ships and get your 3 friends to all log-in at the same time to prove me wrong now. ^^
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Sarawr!? - 02-22-2014
Is anything other than ship types going to be changed here?
If not, then I fail to really see the issue so long as the Zoners will still have Gunboats and the like. Jinkusu's and Nephilim's are nice and all, but if you really think about it...those ships will still exist, no? Just having been slightly repurposed.
Nobody is being "Forced to be a trader", so far as I can tell. Losing battleships that provide heavy firepower does not limit RP, neither does it limit your ability to take down "enemy" capships.
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Gytrash - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 06:32 PM)Sarawr!? Wrote: Is anything other than ship types going to be changed here?
If not, then I fail to really see the issue so long as the Zoners will still have Gunboats and the like. Jinkusu's and Nephilim's are nice and all, but if you really think about it...those ships will still exist, no? Just having been slightly repurposed.
Nobody is being "Forced to be a trader", so far as I can tell. Losing battleships that provide heavy firepower does not limit RP, neither does it limit your ability to take down "enemy" capships.
Turning battleships with established lore, purpose and role play into battletransports is the issue. Pet le will lose billions of credits of investments and months worth of RP for the sake of a faction of lel. You'd be singing a different tune if it was liberty caps being turned into battletransports.
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - RedEclipse - 02-22-2014
Major,
You may look for the last Zoner threads, where I'm keep saying same thing, which you are retransmitted. The thing is, they did know our position, they didn't missed it, but ignored. Jinx trying turn us into trade faction with no zoner routes, and he don't give a damn how the decision would be made, without zoners players or not.
Anyways, maybe another bump from the Zoners would help Jinx to understand, we don't need his changes, since his own created poll says Zoner players are against it.
RE: upcoming Zoner changes: A statement from an Official faction - Sarawr!? - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 06:34 PM)Gytrash Wrote:(02-22-2014, 06:32 PM)Sarawr!? Wrote: Is anything other than ship types going to be changed here?
If not, then I fail to really see the issue so long as the Zoners will still have Gunboats and the like. Jinkusu's and Nephilim's are nice and all, but if you really think about it...those ships will still exist, no? Just having been slightly repurposed.
Nobody is being "Forced to be a trader", so far as I can tell. Losing battleships that provide heavy firepower does not limit RP, neither does it limit your ability to take down "enemy" capships.
Turning battleships with established lore, purpose and role play into battletransports is the issue. Pet le will lose billions of credits of investments and months worth of RP for the sake of a faction of lel. You'd be singing a different tune if it was liberty caps being turned into battletransports.
One of those "Battleships", was originally meant as a habitable colony ship, yes? So all I really see is that they're taking the military bite out of it, and making it actually function as more of a colony ship, which...makes sense.
Also as far as I recall, the Nephilim and Jinkusu "Battletransports", if you want to call them that, are still going to be pretty well armed, if I remember what was said in the thread a little while back.
Additionally, I have no interest in getting into an argument here, I was just adding my opinion, but uhm...Yes I admit, I would be markedly upset if the devs decided "Oh hey we're gonna turn Lib caps into transports", because that wouldn't make any sense at all, Because Liberty is a well established interstellar government with a well funded and properly organized military.
This is something the Zoners are not, and do not possess, lorewise.