+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+--- Thread: Gytrash's rant. (/showthread.php?tid=112598)
Gytrash's rant. - Gytrash - 02-28-2014
So, I've tried being reasonable, I've tried posting rebuttals, I've tried talking to people, I've tried to defend and defend and defend and all that rubbish.
And what do I get?
Rejected. I do not get my points rebutted, nor am I told how it doesn't work. I'm just told
"We decided this without requesting input from you and without telling you it was happening at all, if you wanted to protest it then you should have read our minds and protested about it earlier."
That to me just smacks of incompetence.
Yes, incompetence.
If you can't figure out how to message people on the forums and on Skype then you are obviously incapable of developing this mod in a direction that benefits the community as a whole. You have repeatedly and without hesitation stated that the Zoners cannot support battleships, or really any battleships with their population and resources.
Okay, let’s see. Where’s something that I can use to rebut that. Oh right. Here it is.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=110329
Vagrant Raiders, your own personal little unofficial faction. Roll call.
Fighters/bombers good. Transports and liners okay.
A spyglass II?
That’s a battleship.
You wot m8?
Delete it. Should be a transport.
So you for your own personal group of ten or twenty or however many it’s supposed to be is able to support a battleship and is fine with stealing cruisers (Which you shouldn’t want by the way, that Zoner cruiser is just a big fancy transport according to you)?
How do you justify that and then nerf the Zoners so that they, a group far more numerous and successful than some BS little unofficial group like your precious Raiders could ever hope to possibly be are capable of supporting a fleet?
No wait. You don’t, you just say “That’s beside the point. We can do it because we aren’t the Zoners.”
Let me clue you into a little something Kazinsal. You may say “Zoners are piss weak because reasons” but Zoners have pretty much the largest player population going. Now I know that you will say “Gameplay does not reflect lore ololololol”
But think about this, if the Zoners are that attractive to that many players would they not be attractive to NPC civilians as well? Hell, we have an open doors policy. we welcome the political refugee or he who flees from war. We have no overpopulation problems, where we run out of space we can build more.
Hell, take a look at Gran Canaria. The infocards that were put into place BY THE DEV TEAM state that the planet falls perfectly within the norms for earth. In fact it has a climate more suited to human habitation than Earth does. And the skybox that the Omega-50 system has suggests a highly reflective Oort cloud.
I don’t care who you are that would be an awesome night sky.
So the planet is temperate and has a beautiful night sky. Oh and it’s largely peaceful. Or at least more peaceful than the Leeds system has been for years.
Oh, and the atmosphere is not made of Smog like it seems to be on a lot of Bretonian planets. Leeds was Brown FFS.
So overall I’m tired of it. I came back to Discovery looking to help out the Confederation of Freeports in specific and the Zoners as a whole. I managed to get all of the Official faction leaders to agree that we should change up the Lore some to fit a bit with gameplay and now you just want to spit in the face. Not even spit
You want to slap your raging Zoner hate-on in the face of everything that has been built up over YEARS of effort! HOW DARE YOU. You say that giving the Zoners capships was a mistake. Well it was your mistake. Own up to it and face the consequences.
You can say “That was a different set of Devs”
No.
Jinx has modelled pretty much every Zoner capship that I can remember. I think he even modeled the Jinkusu and the one before that. You gave us battleships, we said okay and built RP off it. FOR YEARS!
If you wanted to remove the Zoner battleships Jinx then you should ahve refused to model them in the first place. What’s that I hear? “I liked it when I was playing the Zoners but now that I don’t I hate it.”
SUCK IT UP!
Act like a man. The consequences of your action are that the Zoners now have battlships. If I walk up to someone and give them my car. I sign it over to them, I can’t come back eight years later and say “I never gave it to you. You stole it from me.”
That’s just silly. You can’t retcon your actions in real life. Just because you have the power to do so here does not give you the right to do so. You are destroying what others have worked so hard to build up. And what gives you the right to do this? The mandate? “The previous dev team made mistakes and shiz”
You were part of that Dev team Jinx. You always were.
If you don’t like it then you shouldn’t have done it.
End of story.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Major_Mayhem - 02-28-2014
As both Adviser to the Board of Director of Omicron Supply Industries and later as Chairman, I have had the opportunity to get to know Gytrash. A very passionate young man, with lot of good ideas, fantastic ability to RP.
The past week has been very stressfull for all involved, but mostly for the most passionate about the RP of the faction that he loved. As both Adviser to the Board and Head of the Confederation of Freeports he took on the lead to fight this change.
He continuously argued his case, invited Devs to talk to all of the faction leaders of all 3 official Zoner factions, which he singlehandedly united. And now?
Congratulation Dev team. You've lost. Yesterday in the afternoon (GMT) the discussion in the official zoner factions switched from “how to stop this change” to “alternatives to Disco”. Neither of those discussions is finished per se, but it shows the utter and complete disregard for the well being and popularity of the Mod. In a time in which, a lot of other good space sime are up and running or about to be relased.
I understand the disappointment Gytrash must be feeling, for being told to “sit down and shut up” like a first grader. On behalf of the OSI HC, it's member and allies. I wish to thank Gytrash in publich for his dedication to a cause he believes in, and I believe that we have not seen the last of Gytrash, even though major parts of the Zoner community have lost faith in the Devs and Admins.
I, CEO of OSI 2nd this post.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Kazinsal - 02-28-2014
The VR is an official faction.
Your argument is invalid.
EDIT: To expand on that, VR lore is actually fairly in-depth. I've got a document to publish that I was going to expand a bit more upon and polish up but it looks like I should push it a bit sooner. And y'know, if it's enough to carry an SRP, well...
Not to mention that 90% of the Metropolis wasn't even built by us in the first place and it's existed for a good six years in-RP (five OORP).
Take your ad hominem somewhere else.
EDIT2: You're probably not going to read this, but our intent behind stating "Zoners cannot support battleships" is better to be interpreted as "The people of the Zoner label cannot as a whole support a house-military sized fleet of heavy warships".
RE: Gytrash's rant. - .Gypsy. - 02-28-2014
Yeah I agree Major_Mayhem . Gytrash has posted so many good posts on his opinion he should be able to SRP the entire Zoner shipline as is. I feel for ya man.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - LunaticOnTheGrass - 02-28-2014
Oh, another of these threads.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Luis - 02-28-2014
To be honest, I could not agree more with Gytrash. I mean, I did agree on given the Zoners 'transports' over battleships since they focus on resources and able to survive from distant home planets/systems alone as a small colony and trade. Battleships... ehh could stay but as a small 'hidden' militia. Not many zoner-caps log in either way; they have nothing to shoot but to either defend from possible attacks. Which is like 8% roughly chance of engaging something within RP lines in game let us say per month. Yeh - not quite as something to worry or excuse to remove the Zoner Capital line or ruin past stories and role play.
I played as a Zoner and was one of the 3 fathers that created Zoner Consortium (]c[) and spend lots of time 5 years ago building the 'semi perfect' Zoner Guild that is very close to its Zoner lore like few other Zoner Guilds were out there at that time.
Now throwing all that away, time that players wasted building something to RP with. Stories that players have made on the forums as Zoners with other guilds/factions/ houses even is something FIRST that is being done in-game. Before the old admin/dev team neglected these ideas thoughts but now with this new team - I don't know what road are you guys taking this mod through. One day you do something good, next day someone in the team or maybe the whole dev team craps on everyone. Not nice, but ignorance within that team.
I will +1 this post and protest alongside Gytrash. Sorry but I read all of his post with a clear mind and read the community post debating against him and I saw and read lots of good reasons why NOT to change the zoner lore.
Jinx, I respected you man - but now you are just a simple 'nobody' to me. smh
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Joggin - 02-28-2014
Well, it's come to a pretty pass when people are beginning to become so frustrated as to feel the need to post in this manner.
I can understand it, the way in which the Zoners have been targeted in this "Cap Hunt" seems to have been particularly devisive and I would hope that everyone is alarmed at the way this argument is escalating to the extent where the three Official Zoner camps are fully aligned in their opposition to the Devs plans.
There's a thing! United Zoners! I have never witnessed that in all my years on the Server. Someone needs congratulating for that at the very least, I've never even come close!
Of course, we might have taken a different stance about all of this had all Cap ship use throughout the game been placed under review, but that hasn't been the case and consequently we feel victimized whether or not that is the case in truth.
One of the main problems is that part of the rationale of having Role Play is to be able to influence your Factions destiny, and to this extent I think Disco has a pretty good past history. So it's particularly galling that having done all of that within the spirit of the game and equipment available to us, that a bunch of folk rock up and announce that "Sorry.. We're changing all that, and if ya don't like it, suck it up". Not good enough chaps, really not good enough.
From the TAZ perspective, aside from the actual ships we have on our roster, it's pretty difficult to see what we would do with Baffin in the event that these changes are implemented. Pueblo Bonito is doomed as it currently thrives by the production of the Aquilon and Cap spare parts and so is Shasta as a major supplier of Cap equipment.
This situation has the sense of a complete train crash and I for one don't want to see that happen. Despite all the claims that this change is inevitable and will be implemented whether is agreed with the Official Factions or not, I don't for an instant believe it.
I think it's great that we are are still here talking and it shows a passion by the players in Disco that they are not giving up on this and I am sure there is a way to find an agreed path through the mayhem.
In this respect I would like to see a Mod Dev/Admin/Faction working party set up to sort this mess out.
Frankly, at the moment I'm embarrassed and disappointed for the community as a whole and the way we are presenting ourselves to the outside world over this issue.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Kazinsal - 02-28-2014
(02-28-2014, 04:48 AM)Joggin Wrote: In this respect I would like to see a Mod Dev/Admin/Faction working party set up to sort this mess out.
According to multiple members of the development and administration teams that I have spoken with, this is already underway and has been for 48 hours.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Luis - 02-28-2014
(02-28-2014, 04:10 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: The VR is an official faction.
Your argument is invalid.
EDIT: To expand on that, VR lore is actually fairly in-depth. I've got a document to publish that I was going to expand a bit more upon and polish up but it looks like I should push it a bit sooner. And y'know, if it's enough to carry an SRP, well...
Not to mention that 90% of the Metropolis wasn't even built by us in the first place and it's existed for a good six years in-RP (five OORP).
Take your ad hominem somewhere else.
EDIT2: You're probably not going to read this, but our intent behind stating "Zoners cannot support battleships" is better to be interpreted as "The people of the Zoner label cannot as a whole support a house-military sized fleet of heavy warships".
They can. If they can live in a planet, they can make a whole size fleet - no questions there. The amount of trade they do, within the Zoner Lore, definitely they can do it. Having a Guard System with a Shipyard, oh indeed they can build some militia. Having a fuel substance that other houses buys on, such as Deuterium, which is classified to be:
"... a heavy isotope of the Hydrogen that is used for production of high-quality fuel. This fuel is mostly required for deep space exploration missions and military covert operations in Border Worlds. Natural supplies of this isotope are rare in Sirius, which makes Deuterium very expensive. Zoners are known as primary suppliers of Deuterium in Sirius for the last 30 years."
Hmm... that sounds to me that
1- they must have a militia
2- they must have a high income to purchase resources and materials to construct
3- they live in the edge worlds where NOMADs fly-by they need some sort of "Heavy warship's" to help out instead of ringing the Order phones
4- and for over 30 years they are known to be the primary suppliers of this fuel?
Gosh if you ask me, I would say that they must have some kind of fleet to support from nomad or even pirate attacks.
So, Kazinzal - your comments are absurd while the entire dev team baffles me around on what you guys are doing. The little spec of life this mod have you guys are dimming it down little...by little... until there is nothing left to play with. Not just throwing this at you, but to the whole dev team. To be honest i just wished that the old admin/mod team was with us again. SMH.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Gytrash - 02-28-2014
(02-28-2014, 04:50 AM)Kazinsal Wrote:(02-28-2014, 04:48 AM)Joggin Wrote: In this respect I would like to see a Mod Dev/Admin/Faction working party set up to sort this mess out.
According to multiple members of the development and administration teams that I have spoken with, this is already underway and has been for 48 hours.
According to all the Official faction leaders who I am currently speaking with that's bull byproduct.