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+--- Thread: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] (/showthread.php?tid=115511)
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Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Vicho Deivis - 05-18-2014
What happen with the Etherium and the removal of the Phantoms made me think. The current official factions on Disco impose great limitations to the factions that could be proposed. Not to the point of make totaly imposible something like the Etherium but the lack of resources already on Disco (ID, NPC bases, appropriate vessels, etc) increases the difficulty to do it.
Other example, imagine that two diferent persons try to create their traders faction. One is specialized in the transport of dangerous goods company and the other is a delegation of a new Alien spieces that want to establish trade relations with the Houses.
The first is a relatively simple: make convoys, negociate contracts, etc. But the second have aditional problems in practice that only can be solve with a lot of cooperation with others outside their faction. They have human vessels and human comodites, so a lot of people will think that they are actualy humans. They can roll to avoid the need of remind everyone about their nature that they try to remain in secret of course. But this is a constraint, they can't take the path of be completly open from the beggining. Aslo the only alien items available are the artifact, that imply smugling. Of course they could change this once they achive official status and if they achive the request for the incorporation of new items to sale and maybe a transport. But how much time this would take? 6-9 months if lucky?
With this I just want to do a call to reflection, if this thread becomes in a lot of complies and nothing more please close it. This is just to see the comunity opinion and if it have sense think in a solution, from my point of view this problem also help keep the Disco lore in order (despite someones opinions there is no a completly mess xD )
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - SnakThree - 05-18-2014
I agree, but, the problem is, that this is Freelancer expansion mod. Adding many non-vanilla factions makes it a hybrid between expansion and conversion mod. I love the fact it still remains true to Freelancer spirit. And personally, I dislike non-vanilla factions. They are simply not rich enough lore-wise to make them believable or be inline to even adapt to current lore. But that is just my personal opinion.
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Narcotic - 05-18-2014
Anyone can make his own factions without any constraints.
The only problem I see with "Etherium" is, that they're introducing a new (alien) race/concept. And people don't like major changes in the Sirius universe. See Gallia implementation. 9/10 seem to hate it. Also, people argue that one shouldn't add more, but use what we alread have instead. There's lots of NPC groups that are being neglected.
Adding a completely new race might sound interesting at first, but later it'll become boring quick. See Phantoms. They disbanded because they didn't find their place/role in Sirius. No true goals, no purpose for being there and doing what they did. It all became dull. I'm afraid the same would happen with your "Etherium". Even though I wouldn't be declined to give them a chance as a "Phantoms replacement", seeing how much effort they put into it (writing lore, modeling shipline).
I'm sorry if I missed your thread's point. Wasn't quite sure what you were exactly talking about tbh.
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Highland Laddie - 05-18-2014
Well, I personally like a lot of the lore and idea behind Gallia. It's just the implementation there that I dislike (too many new factions and too big of new space). So, it's not an exact apples-to-apples comparison. Also, Gallia was not a player-driven implementation, was it?
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - |nfrared - 05-18-2014
Gonna chip in here, because there are factors that aren't being taken into consideration in regards to the Etherium now attempting to be submitted as new material instead of replacement material.
Firstly, the Etherium was posted in response to an appeal by the admin team to be a content replacement. I probably would never have adapted it as a standalone new faction proposal, but have done so now because of the amount of time we invested (or wasted) trying to engineer it at replacement material.
As for the fun dying down after an initial round of new toys as Narcotic said might happen, I would have to disagree there because of one main factor - The Etherium have a logical and extremely long-term gameplan. They wouldn't be a flash in the pan terrorist faction which ran out of ideas to keep themselves going. I am never out of ideas.
It was clear that no one wanted anything like the previous Phantoms to take their place. So yea, I did try something really different and new, because that is what was asked for. Does it fit with vanilla lore? Well the obvious answer there is no. But to come up with completely new content that met that criteria was actually asking the impossible, as nothing new could be called vanilla.
So I don't think I did a bad job of things, I tried to give what was asked for, and when that changed I tried to take into consideration all of the people that affected, and instead of trashcanning their months of work I persevered, altering tact as I went until I am where I am now. I'm still not ready to give up on it. There are other non-vanilla factions that made it in, look at Hellfire Legion. At least I thought of an original name.
So back to the OP. Is there a problem implementing new ideas? This might be better answered by the development team. This example is a bit of a unique case - as I was asked to come up with an idea for a specific purpose - as opposed to asking for my new content to be added.
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Vicho Deivis - 05-18-2014
(05-18-2014, 01:10 AM)Narcotic Wrote: Anyone can make his own factions without any constraints.
The only problem I see with "Etherium" is, that they're introducing a new (alien) race/concept. And people don't like major changes in the Sirius universe. See Gallia implementation. 9/10 seem to hate it. Also, people argue that one shouldn't add more, but use what we alread have instead. There's lots of NPC groups that are being neglected.
Adding a completely new race might sound interesting at first, but later it'll become boring quick. See Phantoms. They disbanded because they didn't find their place/role in Sirius. No true goals, no purpose for being there and doing what they did. It all became dull. I'm afraid the same would happen with your "Etherium". Even though I wouldn't be declined to give them a chance as a "Phantoms replacement", seeing how much effort they put into it (writing lore, modeling shipline).
I'm sorry if I missed your thread's point. Wasn't quite sure what you were exactly talking about tbh.
I will try to make a better example, forget the Etherium.
Imagine that you want to create a alien faction that recently discovers the technology to make interestelar travels and want to trade with humans. Write the lore is not a bigger problem than it would do another Zoner faction. The problem is to take that lore to the server, the avilable ships are all human and they can only land in humans stations or planets. If the rest of comunity is uncooperative by ignoring these inconveniences the intrepetation of their role will be problematic.
Perhaps is just that I know the problem with phantoms and their disband as a story, didn't see it and underestimate the inconvinience of having alien factions arround only to disappear few time latter. Or I'm incapable to understand such devotion to the Vanilla lore.
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Divine - 05-18-2014
If you wish to create any new faction based on an existing NPC-faction or any other group composed out of humans, your chances to succeed are much better as when you try to implement a new alien race to the game. A new race is a game changing event.
And it should be thought out very carefully to fit into the delicate balance the freelancer universe factions are.
If you feel that upcoming groups are pushed too hard by the existing ones, then you should also consider that a lot of out-of-lore factions came by and found their place within the universe.
They started out as groups looking for their place and finally found their place at the end. Their survival though never was a story of success.
[RoS], Phantoms|, VE|-, VR|-, CR|-, Harvesters, ... just to name a few. See, the difference is, those are factions based on humans or human-like individuals.
A new alien race needs a lot of work to back it up. What happened, how did it happened, when, why and how they achieved their technology, how they came to Sirius and why, what are their goals now, what have been their goals before, social structure before the exodus and today etc... I could go on all day what you -should- be able to answer for your faction.
And people, naturally, will ask for more details about an alien race as for any group of humans.
Voted No.
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Scumbag - 05-18-2014
The question is: Are we still playing Freelancer? Cause if we are then i think you need a good explanations why you are not playing one of the numerous vanilla factions that are inactive.
If we are not then why do we still have these role play limitations. Discovery can't decide what it wants to be, an open roleplay environment or a Freelancer mod.
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Vipera Berus - 05-18-2014
Quite frankly, I would sooner see an inactive faction revived. I do have a few charas that I seldom use but their part of factions I barely see at all.
RE: Constraints for new factions [Read before flaming] - Sath - 05-18-2014
There are a lot of Vanilla factions that need to be revived. Cryer, Planetform, Synth Foods and the list can go on and on with already existing factions dying too.
Without that, there is no point in calling this a Freelancer expansion and instead a standalone mod, pretty much like how Crossfire evolved to be.( I dont think Crossfire did well either.)
The fact that Disco emphasised on Vanilla factions and the new ones that were created were in accordance to the Vanilla ones is the biggest reason to the longevity and popularity of Disco over the other FL mods, though Disco has less eye candies than them. And if that changes, Disco wont be the same again, for sure.
If I could do, I would try and play all the vanilla factions and create interest among people to play those characters, I would definitely. But unfortunately the population of Disco is not that supportive in this cause. I will surely try to revive an old faction, a vanilla one that has been dead, whenever the time comes.
The point is, there are already a lot of vanilla factions and not enough players. Instead of going in for a new faction, it would be better to play the existing ones which are far more clear and has a lot of lore and history to it. New factions need to work very hard to gain a place in Disco. And that too, alien races should fill in all those doubts, those gaps where they should justify their arrival, their existence, and whatnot. It is safe to say that, Disco is living for so long, because it gave more importance to Vanilla lore and factions rather than creating more of its own, with limited resources.