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Diplomatic Conference Channel - Tenacity - 08-27-2008
...Link Connecting - ID: Christopher Thorn...
-Begin Relay-
This is Christopher Thorn, head of the Junker's Union. This diplomatic conference is being broadcasted on all Junker channels and across all Junker stations. The following groups and individuals are permitted to join this conference to discuss diplomatic matters regarding the reputation of the Junker Body as a whole:
Junker's Union Members
Junker's Congress Members
Junker Guard Members
Junker's Alliance Members
Self-Employed Junkers
Upon private request, Diplomatic Emissaries from the governments of Rheinland, Liberty, and Bretonia may also join this discussion. All other nonauthorized communication frequencies will be blocked until access is approved by myself, or by Vladimir Tinkerbell of the Junker's Congress.
Now, to the first subect at hand - it has come to my attention, and I'm sure the attention of the congress, that the reputation of all Junkers is being degraded and ruined by a few, greedy individuals who attempt to wrongly fly vessels under our banner. This behavior may have been tolerated in the past, when no central figures were available to take responsibility for these actions, but it is destroying the ability of lawful junkers to operate in our home areas.
Primarily of note in this discussion is individuals using Junker vessels, Identification, and IFF transponders who are moving Slaves and Cardamine - particularly those who are doing so through unacceptable areas, such as the Alaska System. This has caused no end of trouble towards us from the Lawful organizations of liberty primarily, and to a lesser extent Rheinland and Bretonia. It is my assumption that these Junkers are not Junkers at all, but rather Outcasts who are trying to negatively impact our reputation while making a hefty profit for themselves.
While I cannot speak for the Junker's Congress, Guards, Or Alliance - the Junker's Union has taken all measures available in order to prevent the movement of Contraband Goods within Rheinland, including but not limited to Cardamine, Slaves, Synthetic Marijuana, Artifacts, and Counterfeit Software. The movement of Light Arms is a controversial issue, but is tolerated so long as our members are never linked to weapons being used by the local criminal populace of Rheinland.
The largest issue that has developed is that Lawful Organizations - such as the Rheinland Military, LSF, and Liberty Navy - have targeted Junker Union and Congress members and placed responsibility for the actions of these smugglers on us, as there are no other leadership figures within the Junker Body that can be 'blamed' for the act. This has caused extreme suspicion of our pilots within Liberty and Rheinland Space, and such suspicion prevents our pilots from fulfilling lawful operations - this has destroyed our ability to make honest profit, and for what? So some greedy Junker or Poser can make money off of our misfortune? This will not be allowed to happen.
In the past, it has not been uncommon for Junker stations to 'hand over' small-time problematic junker pilots to the authorities when they cause issues that jeopardize the rest of the station's occupants. I am calling for this to take place on a much large scale, in order to recover our reputation and weed out the corrupted elements before they can do further harm.
The Junker's Union is only able to enforce these ideals within rheinland at this time, so it will take the combined efforts of the Guards, Congress, and Union (and alliance, if they are established as of yet) in order to enact such a widespread apprehension of convicted individuals.
The proposal to solve this is as such:
-Any Junker Identified vessel carrying slaves be evicted from Junker stations and denied docking rights, and reported to local Lawful Authorities.
-Any Junker Identtified vessel carrying cardamine be evicted from Junker stations and denied docking rights, and reported to local Lawful Authorities.
To the second order at hand - Outcasts. Recently, outcasts have become increasingly hostile towards Junkers in all areas of Sirius. It is my belief that they wish to cut us out of the cardamine trade - if that is the case, then let them. If the outcasts want to backstab us after having helped them so long - then let them haul cardamine themselves, and see how much effort it takes to bypass lawful patrols with no inside connections.
The proposal on this act:
-Junkers may discreently report the location of outcast vessels, both cardamine smugglers and military vessels, to the local authorities as an anonymous tip. This will raise our reputation with local authorities, and further cut back the outcast source of wealth.
-Outcasts shall be denied docking rights to Junker Stations, doing so will force them to find other outlets for selling their vile cardamine and again, make it more difficult for them to profit.
Take note that these actions do not apply to any outcast allies, unless those allies are hauling cardamine - in which case they will be denied landing rights to junker stations. We have no reason to start a quarrel with the rogues, hessians, et cetera - these actions are taken against outcasts alone in an attempt to teach them to never double cross the Junkers.
The third issue at hand - Junker Guard Pilots. I have received complaints from numerous sources lately that Junker Guard pilots have been openly attacking bounty hunter vessels, killing hundreds of bounty hunters above heavily populated civilian stations. Such actions cause the bounty hunters to become even more hostile to us, which cannot be tolerated. We have enough issues with Rostock's hunters in omega 15, we cannot have bounty hunters declaring open war on us. Guard units or not, this behavior is extremely degrading the reputation of other Junkers.
I have also heard reports that several Junker Guard Pilots are using GMG vessels - I expect an explanation for that, as the GMG are not on the friendliest of terms with Junkers, and only barely tolerate our presence within sigma 13. These GMG ships should be replaced immediately with more suitable vessels for a Junker Pilot.
Lastly, it has come to my attention that numerous Junker Guard members are using Inferno cannons and outcast weaponry. Due to the above, this can no logner be accepted, and this weaponry should be immediately replaced with civilian grade or Junker-produced equivalents.
To all those who are listening in on this conference, take note that none of the above actions are being taken yet. I will await word from the Junker's Congress - which I consider to be the central political body of our organization - to decide on these matters.
This Conference channel will remain open to the above listed parties until a conclusion is met.
Thorn Out.
Diplomatic Conference Channel - worldstrider - 08-27-2008
Vladimir Tinkerbell,
Other Junker colleagues are in many cases running about prematurely or with assumptions about Junker action that are entirely their own.
This has resulted in threats, counter threats, misunderstandings and hostility as well as blowing otherwise mundane issues into rumors of conflict.
Accordingly, I make an official statement that any conferences, decelerations, proclamations, announcements of diplomacy and statements of policies and intents by other Junker parties are to be understood as pertaining only to those parties and are not the ideas or views of the Junker Congress.
Every Junker group is free to act as it sees fit and state and decreee and act in any way it wishes--but it is their responsibility when they do so.
All parties in Sirius wishing a clarification of interests or intent or to open communication or diplomacy with the Junker Congress should do so directly with us.
We will consider all arrangements we make as binding and lawful to us but do not recognize the decrees of other Junkers as being binding to our party membership.
We are a political party devoted to the defense and prosperity of Junker society as a whole--our party is merely the means to an end, not an end unto itself. We hold no ambition of levying legislation on other Junkers nor do we intend to limit or define their individual freedoms and we claim no "rights" to command other Junkers as to what they "must" do.
We are not able to be responsible for these other Junker groups actions and make this clear statement that we are not participatory with their actions at this time.
Diplomatic Conference Channel - Tenacity - 08-27-2008
Thank you for joining the conference, Vladimir;
I realize that the congress' views on junker activities are that of distanced non-involvement - the problem is that organizations around sirius are targeting the congress, the union, and other 'official' junker leadership bodies as responsible for the actions of those individuals who deem it appropriate to be reckless in their ventures.
I realize that we cannot take responsibility for the actions of these few, but those responsibilities are being [i]forced[/u] upon us due to the nondistinction other groups view us with. Every time a careless self-employed Junker Smuggler gets scanned carrying contraband, it is our groups that the lawfuls target with retaliation. They expect us to handle the problem, and if we dont handle the problem they expect us to be 'ok' with being labelled as full blown criminals.
We cannot allow this to continue. We cannot allow individuals who have no concern for the rest of the Junker populace to jeopardize our affiliations with other factions around Sirius, or we will soon find ourselves fighting a war that we never had any intention of starting. That is something that will likely crush us, Junkers have never been a head on military force.
I do not see why we should protect those who whould incriminate themselves, especially when the organizations they are working for - such as the outcasts - wish to see our downfall; and that is exactly what it will come to if we do not take action.
Prior to these events, I respected the unaffiliated approach the Junker's Congress took towards the behavior of 'individual' junkers, but that approach and lack of action could prove to be our undoing as a whole. If we continue to let things descend at the rate they are, it will not be long before house governments brand us as criminals and order their police and military forces to destroy us on sight. Junkers with lawful intent, such as the Union, will no longer be able to exist if that occurs, as our operations require us to maintain an open and peaceful relation with the authorities in the areas in which we operate.
And another issue at hand - the harvesters. We have a neutrality agreement with them: we dont hinder their resource gathering, and in exchange they do not attack us and occasionally offer protection to junker stations which they consider valuable. However, dozens of reports come in by the day of reckless junker pilots attempting to use the harvesters as a threat against any enemies - primarily the house police and military organizations.
This creates extreme tension in our relations with these lawful factions, as the harvesters are considered by many to be a dire threat to human existence within the sirius sector. The careless words of junkers who were not smart enough to avoid police patrols is causing the house governments to associate us with a severe threat, and by association that gives them enough reason to attack us on sight.
Something must be done, and it must be done now - or there will be no junkers left.
Diplomatic Conference Channel - worldstrider - 08-27-2008
I am wary of people who make themselves judge and police because it "was necessary".
"Junkers" are not causing the behavior you speak of--Junker organizations are.
We will continue to merely police our own house and build so as to be able to help other Junkers.
Diplomatic Conference Channel - Tenacity - 08-27-2008
Then you, as well as the union and all other junker groups, are going to be forced into taking responsibility for what these individuals commit in 'our name'. I am surprised you are not more concerned by the state of things, the houses are close to declaring open hostility against junkers and evicting us from their space due to the actions of a few, and such actions will not be directed at the individuals causing this - they will be directed at us.
How will the congress fare when the whole of the liberty navy is rallied against it? I cannot speak for your forces, but the Union would not stand a day against the might of rheinland's military. We Junkers are not fighters, and we never have been - our guard pilots are there to enforce the relative safety of our stations, not to battle superior numbers and firepower in a war we cannot win.
I do not wish to impose control of any sort over these individuals any more than you do. Only months ago I was one of them - freedom to act as one sees fit is one of the most liberating facets of being a member of the Junker family, but when individuals make choices which put the rest of the family in danger, should they really be considered part of it any longer?
These people will not stand up for their own actions, they will not take responsibility for what they do. Rather, they will direct the wrath of lawful organizations against us - and by us I mean all junker leadership organizations - because we are a figurehead which is easily targeted by those organizations. An individual can hide, a corporation or political body cannot.
A true junker will never put other members of the family in harm's way if he has a choice in the matter. Why should we allow those who abuse our name for the purposes of greed alone put us in harm's way? You may not have wanted the spotlight, but the Junker's Congress is the voice of the Junker people, the rest of us who know what it means to be a Junker take guidance from the congress' decisions. Without your help we cannot prevent the disaster that is to come if wreckless individuals continue to destroy our reputation within the houses.
We cannot, at any cost, risk being evicted from house space - The debris fields we survive off of do not exist in the borderworlds, and further we do not have the resources to protect operations in those more inhospitable areas of space. I have been doing everything in my power to secure the Junker's Union as a lawful corporation within rheinland that has the support and protection of the rheinland military and police forces - but I see nothing of the sort happening within liberty or bretonia. Is it really your intent to stand by and do nothing while the threat on the horizon crawls ever closer?
Diplomatic Conference Channel - Blodo - 08-27-2008
Comm ID: Kurt Schunterr
This is Schunterr. While normally I would not presume to intrude, some interesting points have been posted over these comms and - considering I do mount a Junker identification on my vessel and was involved in important actions against Xenos in Liberty - I do believe I have the right to comment.
First of all, the very virtue of the Junkers is that we maintain business relationships with any party in Sirius willing and able to deal with us. That includes Outcasts, Corsairs, and whoever else may crawl out of the woodwork. Just because Junker Union pilots are targetted by Outcasts, does not mean it applies to every other Junker out there, which brings me to another point.
While I do not oppose the Junker Union (considering they are part of us Junkers after all), I do believe their actions may have affected the stance of the so called "Outcast alliance" towards them. Outcasts can tolerate individual Junkers dealing with Corsairs as long as they don't know about it, but I know for a fact that they will not stand for a group that uses actual Corsair ships and weapons in their space or their allies space. It does not matter to anyone where you got them from, that is unfortunately the reality of Sirius. As long as the Junker Union continues to fly Corsair gunboats and mount Corsair weapons, relations with the Outcasts *will* deteriorate. And with Outcasts - the Rogues, Hackers, Hessians etc. will follow suit, damning our relations with the "other side" to hell.
Remember that every military action hurts our business, and I do not want to be banned from conducting business in certain areas of the known universe just because the Junker Union felt it fit to attempt to demonstrate their strength of will. If the Union declares to stop all relations with the Outcasts, I will not follow that suggestion and - I believe I speak for all our self employed brethren here - neither will anyone else. I might be shipping Engine Components through Sirius, but I prize my relationship with the Hessians and Hackers highly, and I do not wish that relationship be destroyed due to the actions of the few. Instead I suggest for the Union to try and woo the Outcasts into neutrality. That is what will help business and profit for all of us - both self employed and Union pilots.
Second of all: To all Junker organisations who are blamed for individual Junker vices - I would attempt reminding the local police/military force that these Junkers are not connected to any of you and they are responsible for their own well being. The only house police force in Sirius that cannot be reasoned with is the Liberty one, but quite frankly they shoot at anything they don't like these days so it shouldn't be considered as something out of the ordinary. I suggest any actions against individual Junkers in regard to the cargo they ship dropped altogether, it is not the job of the Union to police what we do. Please do not blow this out of proportion.
I agree however to the point of reminding the Junker-Guard of their heritage. One of the Junker virtues is to look insignificant. This is what allows us to do what we do, and all Junkers should follow this "code".
Those are my opinions. I sincerely hope they will help our understanding of universal business.
Schunterr out.
Diplomatic Conference Channel - Tenacity - 08-27-2008
The Union itself has no direct relations with outcasts, the 'attacks' I mentioned originally have not been against us, but have taken place in the shadows against Junkers across Sirius. As I said, for a very long time now we have been the 'middle man' in their cardamine trade, and it seems they are starting to become irritated at the loss of profit due to dealing with us.
Regardless, as I said I will not order any such actions without the approval of a majority of other junker organizations, the suggestions were merely that - suggestions.
We currently only use one corsair ship, which as I have stated on other occasions was taken from the walker nebula and contains next to no operating corsair equipment any longer. The use of that ship has not damaged our relations with the LWB, Hessians, Unioners, or Bundschuh, as that vessel - the Midgard - remains at kreuzberg and Bornholme as a security measure. The only time it strays away from our stations is when it is moving between them.
Regardless, I do not condone the use of corsair or outcast ships - or that of either group's allies - by any of the union's members. While we dont have to 'like' outcasts, that attitude has not had an effect on any of our operations so far. It is the rest of the Junker body that I'm concerned about, most of the events described are taking place within liberty which is outside of our area of jurisdiction. I cannot enforce any such rules within that area and I do not intend to, this conference is to bring these subjects to light and attempt to convince the congress that some sort of action needs to be taken before things get out of hand.
Now, to your general point, I agree. While taking action against individual junkers ourselves is the last thing we should do, it is the most effective. Hopefully it doesnt need to come to that, but we must find some way in which to convince the house governments and their police and military forces that we, despite being figureheads for the other junkers out there, are not responsible for actions taken by them.
The issue is that they are not likely to listen. Liberty has hated junkers for a very long time, and by the day they grow closer to declaring hostile status towards all junkers, regardless of the organizations they follow. Junker congress members are likely to be targeted as readily as any self-employed junker, and with our home system being linked directly to liberty that can end up being a severe problem.
Still, the fact remains that the Congress is the political voice of junkers within liberty. If anyone is going to convince the liberty government that our factions are not responsible for the wreckless actions of those unaffiliated with us, it's got to be the congress members.
As to the Junker Guards, I fully agree; they are creating an issue which does not need to exist. If they continue openly attacking very large and very dangerous groups, they are putting all other junkers into the path of danger when those groups retaliate. It is unfortunate that they do not have a presence here on official channels, hopefully they will chime in soon.
If they continue acts of hostility within rheinland space, I will be forced to evict them from our stations there. I cannot have their wreckless aggressiveness endanger our situation with the bounty hunters or rheinland lawful forces within rheinland territory, and I cannot risk their actions causing damage to our stations or injury and death to our salvage teams.
Diplomatic Conference Channel - Blodo - 08-27-2008
Comm ID: Kurt Schunterr
Well, I am very hopeful that the salvaged Corsair vessel will indeed not be targetted by Hessians, Bundschuh or the LWB, who are all known for attacking Corsairs on sight. I would suggest caution around Hessian bases especially.
About stopping house police and bounty hunters engaging Junkers: that is unfortunately beyond the scope of anything the Junker Union (or any Junker at all for the matter) could do. Liberty is taking a more aggressive stance towards us, and it's not really our fault. I myself have been targetted multiple times (by scores of insane pilots in New York especially) without committing an offense, although managed to escape. The Liberty Navy command might not condone these direct actions, but that is fact: Junkers are a target. I do not believe there is anything we can do to make Liberty not attack us aside from maintaining our ships outfitted in the most inconspicuous way possible. That includes dismounting all salvaged unlawful weapons before entering Liberty trade lanes and vicinity of Liberty bases. It might be a real drag to do so, but there is no other way. It's either that or risking banishment from the lawful enterprises of the house. I myself mount only civilian and junker weapons on my CSV-II and Liberty lawfuls seem to be fine with that. I believe the officials of house Rheinland and house Bretonia can be reasoned with to omit certain equipment choices however.
If for some inexplicable reason Liberty declares all Junkers hostile, remember that we still have access to Puerto Rico through the Lane Hackers guard system. I do not believe they would deny us access to our system through theirs if an explainable situation ever arised. We need not worry about that.
Schunterr out.
Diplomatic Conference Channel - worldstrider - 08-27-2008
Herr Schunter's points are exactly mine in part.
First, most Congressmen are flying transports or Collectors. Sirius has yet to see a "Junker battle fleet appear from the mist"--and by our own intentions never will. The ship allowance decisions we allow are for individual Junkers to make. The Junker Guards Party members of the Congress will have a more strict "code of conduct"--which they will voluntarily submit to. But Junkers are independent and some will align one way and some the other. We cannot dictate to individual Junkers, "You must fly a Corsair ship" or "You may not associate with Outcasts" or even "You are not permitted to trade commodities" that might be legal in some areas and illegal in others. These are directions that contradict the very ways of Junker life. Each Junker will have to stand for his own actions--even Congress members. The Congress will not "save" a Junker from imprisonment by the LPI when they are caught smuggling counterfeit software. We will not go to war with house authorities because they enforce the law. Nor will we declare hostilities on Corsairs and Outcasts for pursuing their own manifest destinies. Where we will have some ships capable of limited force will be amongst the military members of the Junker Congress--all of whom will be under the authority of the Congress itself and the Junker Guards Party. Members of the military will be sanctioned and punished and disciplined as part of a code of conduct. they will be held to a higher standard and will operate under "one law"--but we will not force this on other Junkers. If Junker stations are sieged or civilians are under terroristic attack, the Congress will dispatch its Guardsmen to assist. We will defend Junker freedom and safety--nothing more.
What Sirius has seen from us is simply "business as usual"--no declerations of war. Our boldest command was simply to declare a 2km radius about Junker stations a no fire zone. Even the Xenos and Hogosha have remained relatively unaffected by us. Purpose and balance are everything--power for power's sake alone is useless.
Vladimir Tinkerbell
Diplomatic Conference Channel - Tenacity - 08-27-2008
I think my points here are being misunderstood, I do not disagree with what either of you have said.
All but one ship owned by the Junker's Union - the Midgard - are transport or freighter class vessels. The midgard will be replaced as soon as another ship becomes available for myself, but in the meantime it is a suitable security ship for kreuzberg and bornholme. I did not call this conference to debate what ships we should be flying, however.
I also did not mean to imply that the congress was 'declaring war' on anyone, quite the opposite. It is us - the junker 'factions' - who are the target of these as of yet silent declarations. My point is simply that we must absolve ourselves of responsibility for the actions of junkers who are not under our authority. Many groups, primarily the liberty lawful organizations, see no difference between us and the self-employed junkers who are causing these problems. They target all of us, or they target none of us, there is no inbetween. If they do declare junkers enemies of the house, it will be against every junker, not just those who are unaffiliated.
And yes, I realize that there are back ways into puerto rico for us, but that does not change the fact that we have nothing but a trio of weapons platforms defending the jump hole into that system from liberty space. If they were so inclined, liberty could destroy every one of our stations in that system with little resistance, as we have few militaristic vessels with which to protect ourselves. It is one thing to protect a junker station from the occasional cocky pirate, but it is altogether different having to protect several junker stations from the wrath of an entire naval fleet.
I am only trying to look out for the interests of all of our groups here. The Junker's Union is not having these problems as directly as those within Liberty our. We do have threats to deal with, but they are not what is under discussion at the moment. If we cannot 'force' a code of conduct onto those who fly under a junker flag, we need to - at the very least - find a way to turn the finger of Liberty away from us when they try to point the blame.
A true junker knows that the more allies or agreements we have, the more money we can make - whether it involves contraband or not. The Union does not allow the movement of contraband, but our agreements with Rheinland's unlawful organizations are still valuable to us, and still profitable. If anything causes junkers to be evicted from a sufficiently large area of space - such as liberty - many of our economic balances are likely to collapse.
I just think it's time we start looking at the future of all junkers, and what will become of us if events continue as they have been. I believe it may be beneficial to look at how the houses are viewing us, and how they have viewed us in the past - the change is not for the better. With every passing year they become more suspicious of junker activities, and more hostile towards junker pilots.