+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Role-Playing (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Forum: Unofficial Factions and Groups (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=67)
+--- Thread: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback (/showthread.php?tid=116829)
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Thyrzul - 06-28-2014
(06-28-2014, 01:22 PM)Vigilantes Wrote: Let me make this a bit more precise: it wasn't said anywhere that he could do anything. He had connections that would allow him to propose such thing and not be rejected immediately, but actually thought through.
Of course it wasn't said, it was just implied. After all, if he have the connections to such things, what can't he do? You kinda wrote the character to be a top dude in the Navy with significant influence over how things go.
(06-28-2014, 01:22 PM)Vigilantes Wrote: This makes no sense whatsoever. After Navy accepting Bolshack's proposition, Lionel funded the ship construction and began his training. When you get your driver's license, are you instantly put into the driver seat and ordered to drive around town? Also, why should the navy think what you said in the last sentence? They still spent the time to construct the ship so it would be in their best interest to have it useful.
Oh, so it was under construction while he trained, that put things in a different light, thanks for clarification. Last sentence was sarcasm, but I guess such things don't usually get through the internet.
(06-28-2014, 01:22 PM)Vigilantes Wrote: This was in the context of having any technology mounted on the ship, again, provided it was funded from Lionel's own pocket. This had nothing to do with ship's commandment.
I don't think naval directives allow the mounting of unauthorized equipment either.
(06-28-2014, 01:22 PM)Vigilantes Wrote: This, again, makes no sense whatsoever. Captain of the cruiser is just the one taking decisions on the fly. The crew is given a specific set of guidelines from the Navy that they must obey and have the right not to accept the orders that stay in the contrary with these guidelines.
Anwered by Katana.
And you still have not made clear which one you really meant. Has Lionel resigned from duty, or did he become a reservist?
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Corile - 06-28-2014
Quote:Having 'Lionel' funding his own capital ship, even if that's true, doesn't give an excuse for him to be free of Naval directives, crew even the captain must obey higher-ups and high commands orders, even if they're off the guidelines. They can refuse to obey in-case it's not useful and for the good of the house, battle, or the war.This is exactly what has been said.
Quote:Of course it wasn't said, it was just implied. After all, if he have the connections to such things, what can't he do? You kinda wrote the character to be a top dude in the Navy with significant influence over how things go.I don't think we're responsible for your interpretation, thank you very much.
Quote:I don't think naval directives allow the mounting of unauthorized equipment either.I don't think there was anything said about unauthorized equipment.
Quote:And you still have not made clear which one you really meant. Has Lionel resigned from duty, or did he become a reservist?Not really either one, but he's closer to being a reservist.
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Thyrzul - 06-28-2014
(06-28-2014, 03:07 PM)Protégé Wrote: I don't think we're responsible for your interpretation, thank you very much.
Obviously not, but if something is interpreted in an other way than how you intended, something might require some clarification, and probably some rewording to avoid further misinterpretations. But I'm fairly sure you know well how "incredible connections" might have sounded for me.
(06-28-2014, 03:07 PM)Protégé Wrote: I don't think there was anything said about unauthorized equipment.
Obviously weren't, if you'd want to put something on a ship which is the property of the Navy, you'd have to have it authorized first. Authorization most probably goes by naval directives, which excludes the possibility for Lionel to be not "limited by naval directives and whatnot" even in the "context of having any technology mounted on the ship".
(06-28-2014, 03:07 PM)Protégé Wrote: Not really either one, but he's closer to being a reservist.
So... he is still in active duty, soon to become a reservist, but not to ultimately quit the Navy, right?
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - KaiserDietz - 06-28-2014
This may have been answered previously but as I, and apparently the dictionary see it vigilante actions are done:
"done violently and summarily, without recourse to lawful procedures"
How do you rationalize a group "taking the law into their own hands" as allies with law enforcement? When I think of vigilantes I would think of quasi-lawful's based off of junker bases that play the anti-heros. Any respectable cop would turn their nose up at such a group, regarding them as thugs.
I'm also curious about the financial underpinnings of the group. As I see it, there are three places to get big money: government (you've deserted), corporations (wouldn't soil their reputation), organized crime (actively supressing). You certainly aren't maintaining a Liberty Assault Carrier on your left over navy wages, so how are you funding your crime fighting outfit?
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Vigilantes - 06-28-2014
Quote:When I think of vigilantes I would think of quasi-lawful's based off of junker bases that play the anti-heros.We most assuredly wouldn't use Junker bases as bases of operations because Junkers are criminals.
Quote:Any respectable cop would turn their nose up at such a group, regarding them as thugs.You must remember this is not the "real world" and there are no such things as, say, jails for petty criminals. Police enforces law in the place, seizing contraband and taking fines. We do pretty much the same, except we more often than not destroy the smuggling ships.
Quote:I'm also curious about the financial underpinnings of the group.We have a few affiliated transports that not being Vigilantes themselves sometimes take up the seized contraband, deposit it on a nearby Police or Navy base and give us a cut from it. We also sometimes get donations from organizations such as the IMG, but we don't insist on that (if we are asked for escort, we're cool with doing that, but we don't ask for any money unless the escorted want to throw it at us).
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Thyrzul - 06-28-2014
(06-28-2014, 08:17 PM)Vigilantes Wrote: You must remember this is not the "real world" and there are no such things as, say, jails for petty criminals.
Could you elaborate a little bit more on this line of thought, please? You know, after my last "misinterpretation" I do not want to risk further misunderstandings.
(06-28-2014, 08:17 PM)Vigilantes Wrote: We have a few affiliated transports that not being Vigilantes themselves sometimes take up the seized contraband, deposit it on a nearby Police or Navy base and give us a cut from it.
I wish said affiliated non-vigilantes good luck not getting caught by the real police with contraband in their holds.
(06-28-2014, 08:17 PM)Vigilantes Wrote: We also sometimes get donations from organizations such as the IMG
I'd like to know Jack's view on this too.
Although occasional spare change for some escort jobs and a percentage from contraband haul don't seem to be too much to justify funding the maintenance of an assault carrier in itself, I'm sure there has to be something else too.
Although occasional spare change for some escort jobs and a percentage from contraband haul don't seem to be too much to justify funding the maintenance of an assault carrier in itself, I'm sure there has to be something else too.
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Corile - 06-29-2014
Quote:Could you elaborate a little bit more on this line of thought, please? You know, after my last "misinterpretation" I do not want to risk further misunderstandings.This is close enough: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=117046
Quote:I wish said affiliated non-vigilantes good luck not getting caught by the real police with contraband in their holds.This doesn't work like that. How many times the Police had Junkers cleaning up contraband from destroyed smuggler transport?
Quote:I'd like to know Jack's view on this too.Needless to say, we aren't getting free money from corporations. We are getting money for escort jobs and such if they insist on giving it to us.
Quote:Although occasional spare change for some escort jobs and a percentage from contraband haul don't seem to be too much to justify funding the maintenance of an assault carrier in itself, I'm sure there has to be something else too.Not all Vigilantes are full time, you know.
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Thyrzul - 06-29-2014
(06-29-2014, 09:33 AM)Protégé Wrote: This doesn't work like that. How many times the Police had Junkers cleaning up contraband from destroyed smuggler transport?
Good question. I don't know. My guess would be zero as I'd find it illogical for police to let smugglers haul in contraband confiscated from other smugglers instead of dealing with it themselves to make sure said confiscated contraband indeed reaches it's intended destination. But of course I can't say anything for sure because I am not an official member of any Liberty lawful factions, nor a developer. Are you? You seem to be so confident at knowing how things work like, please tell me more about it, and in the meanwhile you could also specify your sources about Police letting Junkers take contraband, instead of ordering to drop it.
(06-29-2014, 09:33 AM)Protégé Wrote: Needless to say, we aren't getting free money from corporations. We are getting money for escort jobs and such if they insist on giving it to us.
You said you get occasional donations "from corporations such as the IMG". Donation is free money, if it's not free, it's not donation, it's called payment. You either lie/make up your mind on the run, or just have some problems wording what you want to communicate properly. Which one?
(06-29-2014, 09:33 AM)Protégé Wrote: Not all Vigilantes are full time, you know.
Your point?
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Corile - 06-29-2014
Quote:Good question. I don't know. My guess would be zero as I'd find it illogical for police to let smugglers haul in contraband confiscated from other smugglers instead of dealing with it themselves to make sure said confiscated contraband indeed reaches it's intended destination. But of course I can't say anything for sure because I am not an official member of any Liberty lawful factions, nor a developer. Are you? You seem to be so confident at knowing how things work like, please tell me more about it, and in the meanwhile you could also specify your sources about Police letting Junkers take contraband, instead of ordering to drop it.I'll give you an example that happened a while ago. There was a freelancer hauling BMMs from somewhere (probably Detroit) that was caught in front of hattan. He got blown up because he didn't want to drop it peacefully. There happened to be a Junker nearby with a Pilgrim liner, so the Policeman asked him to get the BMMs and deliver it to Manhattan (that was in this case the nearest police base). If he would try to escape with it, he would probably get blown up as well. End of story, and also please end of topic, because this is going off course.
Quote:You said you get occasional donations "from corporations such as the IMG". Donation is free money, if it's not free, it's not donation, it's called payment. You either lie/make up your mind on the run, or just have some problems wording what you want to communicate properly. Which one?This is invalid, sorry. Payment is decided before taking up a job and paid after the job has been done. We do escort people for free without expecting getting anything from them in the first place. If they want to give us money to support the cause, it's their free choice. We don't work for a paycheck.
Quote:Your point?My point is that Vigilantes can also trade or do missions.
RE: Vigilantes | General Information and Feedback - Thyrzul - 06-29-2014
(06-29-2014, 11:47 AM)Protégé Wrote: I'll give you an example that happened a while ago. There was a freelancer hauling BMMs from somewhere (probably Detroit) that was caught in front of hattan. He got blown up because he didn't want to drop it peacefully. There happened to be a Junker nearby with a Pilgrim liner, so the Policeman asked him to get the BMMs and deliver it to Manhattan (that was in this case the nearest police base). If he would try to escape with it, he would probably get blown up as well. End of story, and also please end of topic, because this is going off course.
Manhattan is very big, how did the policeman make sure the cargo reaches a planetary warehouse owned and controlled by the police to seal off contraband instead of a planetary warehouse owned and controlled by less lawful entities to spread their newly acquired wares from? You know, if he himself gets the cargo there, I could understand, but allowing a Junker to handle Black Market Munitions certainly raises questions, don't you think?
Asking because, while you deem it off topic now, you started this conversation implying it's not too illogical for policeman to hire random individuals to secure contraband, like these reaching their destination wouldn't be as important as to warrant specific attention and authorized access only, and all I'd like is to understand what makes you think contraband should be treated with this low level of care by policemen.
Asking because, while you deem it off topic now, you started this conversation implying it's not too illogical for policeman to hire random individuals to secure contraband, like these reaching their destination wouldn't be as important as to warrant specific attention and authorized access only, and all I'd like is to understand what makes you think contraband should be treated with this low level of care by policemen.
(06-29-2014, 11:47 AM)Protégé Wrote: This is invalid, sorry. Payment is decided before taking up a job and paid after the job has been done. We do escort people for free without expecting getting anything from them in the first place. If they want to give us money to support the cause, it's their free choice. We don't work for a paycheck.
Payment isn't defined by when you agree over it, payment is an amount of monetary or non-monetary value in exchange for non-monetary services. The key phrase here is "in exchange for", regardless if the amount specified beforehand, or just left hanging to be decided unilaterally once the service has been completed. If you get money after escorting, that's still a payment, whether you expect it or not, because you get money in exchange for escorting.
Now we can either continue arguing further about meanings of words, or pay attention that we write down what we mean to communicate, and make sure the other one interprets it the way they meant to before blaming misinterpretation on them.
Now we can either continue arguing further about meanings of words, or pay attention that we write down what we mean to communicate, and make sure the other one interprets it the way they meant to before blaming misinterpretation on them.
(06-29-2014, 11:47 AM)Protégé Wrote: My point is that Vigilantes can also trade or do missions.
And fund the maintenance of the Victory Rush from income flowing in from these activities, right?