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Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Printable Version

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Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Jinx - 07-22-2014

Simple Question, simple poll

It is about the BHG capital ship line. While the Mako has been one of the ships ppl tend to like, designwise - and it certainly kind of embodies that many people associate with the BHG it has always been an outsider of the design line with much more darker tones and more rounded parts.
The Thresher is possibly one of the favourite designs for many - although not so clear if it is because it is just stick thin and can do its destroyer job so good - or cause the actual design is appreciated.
The Bullhead is a fairly bad model and not really a good design as a whole.

There have been numerous design revisions over the past years, some made public, some only discussed internally in the dev team.

Here is the latest design proposition

[Image: 04bhgde_zpsb8a934d1.png]
[Image: 06bhgbc_zpse3f2f1c0.png]
[Image: 05bhgbb_zps114e9ca2.png]

http://p3d.in/X8TW1 (destroyer 3d view)
http://p3d.in/Txll8 (battlecruiser 3d view)
http://p3d.in/k63T7 (battleship 3d view)

From top to bottom - Thresher, Bullhead, Mako

The intention is to show the following

- the BHG ships are some of the newest capital ship in Sirius, they are Semi modular and share many elements
- they are of liberty origin ( Liberty built the first BHG caps under contract ) so they share the typical (classic) liberty hull plating


In general the BHG ships are meant to embody aggressiveness, simplicity, and mobility ( not like many other capital ships that are rather about passive area denials, complexity ). They should look heavily armoured, yet not bulky, bristling with weapons but not overlarge.

postscript:

- there have been mentions internally that the antenna on the Mako may not look right - so it might be removed
- the Thresher is as small as the current one, - a little wider but also a little shorter with less "hunchback"
- the Bullhead certainly is larger than the current one, but not as wide in terms of front profile
- the Mako is less compact and probably larger - more a medium battleship than a light one

all in all, i tried to avoid the high arching hunchback on all of them as good as possible while keeping the typical arch intact.


- balance changes may not be required but may happen with the new models ( so we reserve the right to change them accordingly ) - but we would try to keep the idea of each ship intact so that people need not change their tactics

- this is a package deal - the intention is to make them more look like a unified line of ships - so there cannot really be a single replace, its all or none.

the poll runs 14 days from now


postscript:

for those wondering about the design choice

>> the lore of the Core caps is as follows...

the BHG is a guild - similar to the IMG ( of course - cause its also a guild ) - that means they are mostly individuals that operate under a guildstructure to enhance their effectiveness compared to true individuals ( independent mercs or freelancer ) a percentual share of the hunters bounty goes to the guild - so that the guild can operate.

in lore - the BHG has a great advantage over independents, because they have an information network giving them the edge when it comes to detecting targets.

now - the core is different. - the actual origin story is that the core is more like a "quasi independent army" that operates only for one employer - liberty. ( similar to academi, which is a US mercenary unit )

this setup allows the core to go to places that liberty naval forces cannot go - and to go to such places in such force that the liberty secret service, LSF - cannot deploy. so the first designs for BHG core ships was built by libery naval shipyards, designed by liberty shipwrights and deployed at yuno shipyards in alaska.

the original idea ( igiss original idea ) was that the BHG core, lacking any infrastructure ( stations ) on their missions - was forced to live in space - so they were forced to build big ships ( capital ships ). while the BHG relies on zoner freeports for many of their operations, the core would not, because it would upset the political balance if a fleet of capital warships made use of freeports in the omicron region. ( disco 4.82 - 83 )

since the BHG core would deploy in alaska - they travelled through alaska into omicron minor to get to omicron delta. - that setup led to the core and order to become enemies ( that is the only reason ). the core is not interested in the order and the order was not interested in fighting the core - but a fleet of capital warships travelling through minor was too much.
so the order was in the way of the core - literally. - to add to those unfortunate circumstances - the core was not sensitive about the nomad artifacts or remains they gathered - as a quasi legal force of liberty they provided liberty with ample opportunity to "experiment" with those remains - and due to the nature of things - also do unethical stuff - because liberty would always be able to claim not to have known about it. ( the idea was that the core and their research was similar to a facility on neutral soil - lawless soil )

that brings us to the design

liberty engineers were not able to custom build a shipline based on exact specifications. - the reason for that is that they simply did not know enough about the mission. liberty did not know if there was massive radiation, possibly hostile factions etc. around. they also did not know how far the ships had to go - and without any infrastucture - they had to be prepared for everything.

when you do not know anything about the task other than its dangerous nature, you have to make compromises.

BHG core ships were meant to be jacks of all traits. - they would need to carry a minimum crew - yet offer maximum combat capabilities, they would need cargo to operate for extended periods of time but not be so massive to require too much maintenance.

so the design choice was "semi modular"

what is the benefit of a modular design? - you can quickly change modules according to your needs - even without a shipyard. you can replace a damaged module rather than being required to repair it, you can customize "in the field".

what is the downside of modular design? - it is often more costly, it is less efficient than fully customized parts - and it does not look good.

as a visual aspect to represent the modular design - BHG capships are blocky. they do not share the elaborate lines of liberty capital ships. they are not as sleek, nor as powerful as those.
to understand that - the liberty dreadnought is a ship with a history that is greater than a century. the liberty dreadnought knows exactly where it is - what it has to do and how to do it. - it is a very powerful ship in a very small package.

the BHG mako would be larger and less powerful overall. to maximize its power - most its weapons would rather focus on one arc opposed to the liberty dreadnought which has more generous arcs. it would use shock and awe more than area denial. while the lib dreadnought is a defensive platform, the BHG core caps are assault ships: get in, do as much damage as you can - get out.

other than that - the BHG core ships were ( at the time of 4.83 ) the latest capital ships in sirius - the most modern ones. but also the ones without any history - without much combat record - and so - without much experience to adjust their design.

since then - liberty has passed the designs on to the core, which apparently produces the ships themselves now - but from a dev pov - there has not been Core roleplay about revising the ships from their liberty origins - so they remain the semi modular blocky designs they were meant to be.


characteristics :

- blocky - round armor protects better than straight armor, but round armor is also harder to replace easily - so they prefer flat surfaces for quick field repairs or replaces
- modular - the destroyer is made out of 3 very clear pieces - head, mid section and engines, the battlecruiser adds more sections to that - and the battleship is less modular, because it simply has more room.
- liberty blue / grey - it is a liberty design - so it makes use of materials liberty is used to - which is the typical blue/grey of liberty capital ships

the ships are build on specifications made up in 4.83 for the BHG core in cooperation between igiss, and myself - the original designs ( current ones ) are based on concepts by Dreygon based on this - so are those new ones.

so, no matter what the playerfaction (s) made up - at the time of those designs - there was no playerfaction input - and the above is the actual lore written by igiss.

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Sciamach - 07-22-2014

I'm not usually one for BH ships...


but mad approves, 10/10

would fly


the Battle-cruiser is particularly purty

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - The.Outlaw.Star - 07-22-2014

why keep changing the looks of the ships? Why not just come out with new ships?!

They look freakin awesome don't get me wrong but it just seems like we are always changing the looks of ships. This action does not make sense to me.

EX.) I wouldn't take a 1992 ford escort and try to change it to look like a Scion FRS, i would just go n get/buy the new car. Now i have 2 cars YAY!

I understand maybe you don't want one faction or grp to have 20 different ship looks/types/classes whatever but who really care? only one person can control one ship so still only one ship. Like keeping a classic in the garage for a nice sunday drive.

sorry i think im just rambling its late here

Great Job Jinx always enjoy seeing your fabulous work!!!!!!

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Jinx - 07-22-2014

just a quick reply to "why changing everything"

there are two reasons

reason 1 which does not really apply here:
change keeps things fresh. while we do understand that players grow to like and incorporate older designs in their style and RP, a visual representation of progress, even if it does not go along with a progress in stats ( no can do, due to balance ) gives an idea that factions do evolve from time to time. - that their crude old ships get replaced by new ones.

does it make sense since there is usually no improvement in stats? - not really, it is just change for the sake of change.

reason 2 which may apply here more
sometimes some old designs do not cut it - in the worst cases some old designs were kind of bad ( or in the best case - a compromise to time and skill ) back then. in case of the BHG capital shipline - this design is the bullhead.

the bhg battlecruiser has always been a problematic design. too many windows, breaking the hunchback characteristic and overall not too detailed, it was asking for a revision for years.

the thresher still it up to specs today - mostly because it is a very simple design ( that works well though ) - the mako is a good design, but it was a compromise back then because the bhg had complained about their first battleship being bugged (it did have a hitbox that was around 30% large than the osiris, its primary enemy back then - while having worse stats than the osiris, which made little sense, cause the osiris was a scoutship, while the mako was meant to be an assault ship )



what reasons are there against just adding stuff?

it is hard for us to justify multiple ships of the same class. especially when the model sizes and shapes are very similar. it is in fact a little easier when one ship is significantly smaller than the other ship of the same class ( aquilon vs. nephilim ) but that just leaves the lore guys to justify both in service.

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Flash™ - 07-22-2014

Pls no...seriously...no need to ruin BHG Caps...

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Lythrilux - 07-22-2014

As the representative of the the Core| faction, the writer of Core infocards and leader of a faction that is planning on going for officialdom at somepoint in the near future, I say no to these.
The designs really don't look very good in comparison to the current line. Balancewise, the current line is completely suitable the tasks it is required for. Lorewise, we're talking about the Core lore here; the lore that implies they fund their capital ships of the paychecks of BHG hunters (facepalm). Which I why I am trying to rewrite.

I'd say the shipline looks unified already. They all retain elements relating to their names. There's no need to change anything.

EDIT:
If anything, The Core/BHG needs to get a new snub/gunboat line as well as guns so that the factions can truly split from each other.

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Oldum - 07-22-2014

Moved further away, cause I had time to collect my thoughts ... see next page ^^

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Vredes - 07-22-2014

Nope, over my nomad infested body...

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Mímir - 07-22-2014

Please keep the old.

But what happened to Massdriver's updated BHG Manta?

Also if you ask me, the moray could use an update, there's something about it that looks clumsy, but leave the caps/gb's.

RE: Keep the old or convert to the new [BHG capittal ship design] - Oldum - 07-22-2014

(07-22-2014, 10:15 AM)Mímir Wrote: Please keep the old.

But what happened to Massdriver's updated BHG Manta?

Also if you ask me, the moray could use an update, there's something about it that looks clumsy, but leave the caps/gb's.

Now that's awsome... I always wondered what's the point in making a totaly new looking model instead of giving a "modernizing facelift" to the current shapes Big Grin

However, the Bullhead still could use a remodell-hammer ^^