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+--- Thread: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior (/showthread.php?tid=118555)
Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - AceofSpades - 07-30-2014
I've thought to myself for a long time that the economy for smuggling hasn't quite been able to properly emulate that sort of trade. The problem is not always that it isn't more profitable than legal trade (though often it is not), but because smuggling is not approached differently from legal trade in any sort of concept (its buy price, sale price, cargo room taken, etc.) in any way besides a slight margin of profit. This can make smuggling and legal trade somewhat feel like playing two sides of the same coin, which ain't right at all, and also limits a smuggler's incentive to act like -- a smuggler.
However, an idea has come to mind only after giving consideration first to the way in which we are currently balancing the scales:
(if you dont care to read through the 'why', you can skip to the 'what' in large print below)
(if you dont care to read through the 'why', you can skip to the 'what' in large print below)
When we address the balance the smuggling economy it seems to be strictly a question of "how can we determine the way contraband is priced in relation to Ores/legal goods". This is problematic because of three related and conflicting issues of balance:
-- There needs to be a stable, yet reasonable profitable supply of legal goods that are available as an alternative to high-risk or high-work, but more profitable commodities.
-- Contraband needs to be more profitable than legal goods to account for the risk involved in smuggling.
-- Ores need to be more profitable than regular goods to account for the teamwork involved in mining.
It has been common sense that we have sought to reward teamwork the most highly; however it has proven difficult to balance the availability/risk/work of these three commodity types by a difference of profitability only. This is especially so when the prices of Ore need to be capped by the lower value of regular goods, leaving contraband stuck between two fixed profit points.
It seems to make sense that another way to balance these three differences would be price points, the difference at which these three commodities buy and sell. Not only can we still easily regulate the profitability balance of these three, but currently legal cargo and contraband share extremely similar pricing models while Ore remains useful and fresh in a more creative economic design.
-- Legal cargo is typically inexpensive at its purchase point, and sells for a moderate profit [often around 2k-4k] at its preferred destinations.
-- Contraband is typically inexpensive at its purchase point, and sells for a moderate profit [top contraband can net around 1k more than most legal cargo] at its preferred destinations.
-- Ore is produced for free, and sells for a large profit [often 9-10k] at its preferred destinations. Profits are affected by requiring two roles (Pilots), but offer at least double those of regular cargos in order to reflect the miner-trader transaction.
It seems like the easiest method for cultivating a realistic smuggling economy would be by manipulating its pricing points rather than seriously affecting its profitability.
Therefore I'd like to propose an idea that seems simple enough to implement:
We should increase the base prices of contraband (both buy and sell), while affecting profits in a lesser way, in order to more accurately represent smuggling.
First and foremost -- I think this would be easy to do. At least for a few limited commodities, by giving it a test run in the same way we already play with Ore prices. We could start by changing only a few contraband commodities to operate this way, or doing a 'limited time' sort of arrangement we use now with Ores.
The benefits of this concept will be:
-- Increasing the cost of purchase will improve the Pilots willingness to 'smuggle'. Ie: go off-route, avoid police at cost of time or an escort, etc
-- Increasing the sell price will seem much more like an illegal sale [big moneyz] while the profit margin of contraband can still remain reasonably within the scope of other goods.
-- Increasing the overall credits involved in smuggling will make it a much more involved enterprise than 'safe' legal trade, which is the way it should feel in the first place
-- Increasing prices will mean that obtaining contraband by other means, such as seizure or other policy/piracy, would become much more worthwhile than it is now.
Most importantly, if we are able to balance the 'risk' involved in smuggling by a means separate from simply playing with its profit, we can much more easily address the first and foremost issue -- the profit. If we're able to make smuggling into a true high risk endeavor, then increasing profits for it within balance is simply a matter of increasing that risk...
If you want Contraband available that is worth a bit more then regular goods, it costs 5k and sells for 12.
If you want Contraband available that is worth as much as a mined Ore, you trade risk for the hard work, and it might cost you 15k to purchase goods worth 25k, that could match the profits of effortful mining.
...And if you want to fall in-between, you can have a 'reasonable' good with a decently high purchase price that falls right between the two.
Or perhaps even *gasp* scale your smuggling economy, where you can have contraband that ranges in purchase cost from low to high end. It could even therefore reflect the in-RP 'taboo' nature of certain goods, with perhaps Crete and Malta having prominence they do by offering the highest-cost, riskiest goods around.
I threw this out here because I think it's a concept that happens to satisfy both a need, and the need for new ideas to have a reasonable implementation. I think the work required to give this sort of idea a try (if it's likable) would be limited enough to warrant giving it a shot the next time someone plays with Ores on FLhook. Also since repricing would be limited in scope in its initial applications, those who do not seek a high-cost contraband will still have regular stuff available, so it shouldn't impair anyone's game play.
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - Stoner_Steve - 07-30-2014
wow, uh, +1 on the raising the cost of contraband on both buy and sell points
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - Jack_Henderson - 07-30-2014
I really like the thrill of smuggling, however it would be a mistake to buff an activity in a multiplayer roleplay too much, in which you have to avoid any sort of contact and interaction to be successful. So I doubt (and would be against) adding too much incentive to smuggling would be conducive for Disco.
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - nOmnomnOm - 07-30-2014
(07-30-2014, 01:10 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: I really like the thrill of smuggling, however it would be a mistake to buff an activity in a multiplayer roleplay too much, in which you have to avoid any sort of contact and interaction to be successful. So I doubt (and would be against) adding too much incentive to smuggling would be conducive for Disco.
If there was no FR5 being done against the act of smuggling, then I would not be scared to get caught.
The whole point of smuggling is to be able to dock on that place. If you get FR5ed then GG your fun is over becasue some dick was all QQ about you successfully docking with contraband.
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - AceofSpades - 07-30-2014
(07-30-2014, 01:10 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: I really like the thrill of smuggling, however it would be a mistake to buff an activity in a multiplayer roleplay too much, in which you have to avoid any sort of contact and interaction to be successful. So I doubt (and would be against) adding too much incentive to smuggling would be conducive for Disco.
Ah I may have been long-winded and not so clear in my purpose, but this is not intended to provide a 'buff' or 'incentive' to smuggling, quite the opposite in fact. Embracing a change to pricing points, instead of changing the profits (those could remain exactly the same no matter how we affect base buy/sell), would only bring about added [needed] cost and risk to smuggling.
I did mention, and do believe -- that after you properly assess risk to smuggling, you could then much more easily go about balancing profitability between Goods/Ores/Contraband with a then available perspective of risk-involved vs. work-involved.
But, that's the whole staircase, and I only wish to take a first step here.
As of now, this idea would simply stand to bring risk as well a sense of carrying dangerous cargo. With an added benefit of realism, a big money feel, and incentive to pursue RP conditions (like bribing/escorting/avoiding being caught).
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - Gulryz - 07-30-2014
I agree
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - Remnant - 07-30-2014
Personally i'd like to see something like this buffed myself. I always thought it was a little.. dull ever since lawful commodities pretty much became the same amount of profit.
I miss the days when I would see Cardi smugglers all over the place. I'd like to see an influx of smugglers again eventually.
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - Sand_Spider - 07-30-2014
I don't see a reason to increase the buying prices of smuggling goods if the profit will be more or less the same. As it stands, smuggling barely makes more money than legal trading, and because it's illegal, you can't just take tradelanes. It takes a heck of a lot more time, so technically the profit per minute of lawful traders is greater.
If buying prices are to be raised, then the profits should be too, I think. Something I'd love to see are super high-risk/high-reward routes, such as Nuclear Devices costing 10k per unit, but offering a potential 20k per unit profit. Even on a 3,600 cargo transport, you'd have to risk 36 million to potentially triple your money, or lose it all to the authorities/cargo piracy.
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - sindroms - 07-30-2014
I like the idea, but I think that everyone so far in this thread are being rather star-eyed and seem to forget about something specific.
You think that silent traders are bad? Think silent smugglers.
Unless you have a setmessage of "#t you are forbidden to dock with X", then no smuggler will ever stop for you and will dock with the closest base possible and simply tell you that "//This is a DSE base, you are not DSE, your are LPI, deal with it, scrublord."
Also, FR5 has been broken for some time now. All the player needs to do is mount the faction's ID and swap it back to their original ID again. Then rename.
People think that smuggling is hard. It is not.
It is easier than trading.
And the people mentioning something about FR5s simply haven't smuggled lately.
RE: Smuggling as a true high risk/reward endeavor - for realistic gameplay and behavior - NoMe - 07-30-2014
if you smuggle, it's a way, but you can't trade (childrens, their organs, slaves, or all things which can damage the freedom and the development of the human being.
you can smuggle, but if you try to sell ex: (all things mentioned), if i see you, i try to kill you.
Slaves $100 1 0 Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
where yes is the answer(from all houses to say) you can't
yes smuggling is dangerous