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+--- Thread: Cultural minorities in the Sirius (/showthread.php?tid=119450)
Cultural minorities in the Sirius - Fluffyball - 08-21-2014
I was always wondering, if there are minorities with their own languages, e.g. Koreans, Polish, and so on, because of their places on the colony ships from Earth? I mean, it would be possible for Kusari to have some Korean or Chinese onboard, but what happened to them? They became isolated? They mixed up with major nationality? Or all they have are just surnames? All the stuff, I was just wondering if Kyushu became the haven for some minorities that are not Japanese/Kusari, for example, in Hogosha, because real life Yakuza groups recruit a lot of Koreans into their ranks.
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - Pinko - 08-21-2014
I roleplay a Franco-Libertonian in the Liberty Navy and the struggle her minority has to live with the stigma the Gallics brought on her culture, personally.
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - Fluffyball - 08-21-2014
Yep, that's the hard one. Imagine being Bretonian with some French roots. That would be very hard, I suppose. Not to mention Italian and Hispanic roots. :|
I believe some "minorities" would emerge now, during the Republic, because they wouldn't be oppressed by anyone as "wrong ones". Well, I believe it would go like this in some ways:
"Hey, our name is Kowalsky, Nowicky or Zwrotny, isn't that strange?"
"Our old archives says that we belonged to the old nationality that was names -Polish-."
"Cool, so, why not to revive this back? There's about 10.000 of us! We may revive that culture and so on..."
"Cool, let's do it. "
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - /// Drake /// - 08-21-2014
Freelancer is -what- around a millennium after the present day; those nationalities would not survive. Think about nowadays: where are the Romans, the Carthaginians, the Huns etc? NB: none of these are actual nationalities, but for the purpose of this argument, they are.
All the shared cultural, linguistic, culinary and historic values that created a national sentiment, and then the state which enabled the nationalism to come about, would be long extinct.
Any sort of nationality different from the 'main house nationality' would be watered down so much. It would be for all intents and purposes, dead.
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - Sabru - 08-21-2014
(08-21-2014, 10:27 AM)/// Drake /// Wrote: Freelancer is -what- around a millennium after the present day; those nationalities would not survive. Think about nowadays: where are the Romans, the Carthaginians, the Huns etc? NB: none of these are actual nationalities, but for the purpose of this argument, they are.
All the shared cultural, linguistic, culinary and historic values that created a national sentiment, and then the state which enabled the nationalism to come about, would be long extinct.
Any sort of nationality different from the 'main house nationality' would be watered down so much. It would be for all intents and purposes, dead.
i disagree. i think the cultures would survive and adapt.
imo using non-nationalities for a nationality argument is inherently flawed, but let run with it. All of those in some way contributed to the "nationalities" that followed and on and on in a cascading style. Its also how quite a few countries in the world came about.
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - Fluffyball - 08-21-2014
Well, at some point Japan will have (and already has) a lot of people with Korean roots, what would mean that minorities will be rather present even +1000 years. I mean, sure, they will change, but for some reason we have revived Latin (it is a living language right now!), because there are no Romans, yet the language is used. I mean, lacking of country does not mean there's no such nationality (finest example: Poland with 123 years without own country). However strong would you try, nationalities (or its rather now ethicity in Freelancer) will be present, because there will be people maintaining traditions of usage of the other languages.
I mean, there are still Native South Americans, even right now, who speak in Spanish and in their own languages, because they were firstly killed by Spaniards, but later then they were taken into Great Spanish Empire. Not to mention while we speak about "Chinese" we mean either Mandarin or Cantonese, forgetting that China is place of over 30 Chinese languages (or dialects - linguists are still arguing about how the hell class that s**t).
Not to mention Tibetan language (but this fact is kinda wrong, because Tibet is a part of China for mere 70 years, yet in 7th C. Tibet was so annoyed with China that they did a blitzkrieg straight to their capital).
Yet the finest example about the language itself is Gaelic, which was "ressurected" by Irish in both Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland - I was there during vacations and if not English, I would be WAY CONFUSED about the names.
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - Thyrzul - 08-21-2014
(08-21-2014, 11:12 AM)Toji-Haku Wrote: Well, at some point Japan will have (and already has) a lot of people with Korean roots, what would mean that minorities will be rather present even +1000 years. I mean, sure, they will change, but for some reason we have revived Latin (it is a living language right now!), because there are no Romans, yet the language is used. I mean, lacking of country does not mean there's no such nationality (finest example: Poland with 123 lack of own country). However strong would you try, nationalities (or its rather now ethicity in Freelancer) will be present, because there will be people maintaining traditions of usage of the other languages.
I mean, there are still Native South Americans, even right now, who speak in Spanish and in their own languages, because they were firstly killed by Spaniards, but later then they were taken into Great Spanish Empire. Not to mention while we speak about "Chinese" we mean either Mandarin or Cantonese, forgetting that China is place of over 30 Chinese languages (or dialects - linguists are still arguing about how the hell class that s**t).
Not to mention Tibetan language (but this fact is kinda wrong, because Tibet is a part of China for mere 70 years, yet in 7th C. Tibet was so annoyed with China that they did a blitzkrieg straight to their capital).
Yet the finest example about the language itself is Gaelic, which was "ressurected" by Irish in both Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland - was there and was WAY CONFUSED about the names.
Just because we use latin in biology, medicine and law-related stuff doesn't mean it's a living language. Cultures may not die in the original sense of extnction, but at a point through adaptation they will also cease to be what they originally used to be. Native South Americans are one example of this, they got assimilated into the generally Spanish-speaking population. It is pointless to think we have the same minorities a millennia later as we have now, they have far less chances of survival without adaptation to majorities than what majorities have.
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - Fluffyball - 08-21-2014
Thyrzul Wrote:Just because we use latin in biology, medicine and law-related stuff doesn't mean it's a living language. Cultures may not die in the original sense of extnction, but at a point through adaptation they will also cease to be what they originally used to be. Native South Americans are one example of this, they got assimilated into the generally Spanish-speaking population. It is pointless to think we have the same minorities a millennia later as we have now, they have far less chances of survival without adaptation to majorities than what majorities have.
Wrong. Latin as a language is used in Rome and Italy (not only in Church) on daily basis and is even used in newspapers and TV (whole channel or two) - and even in one Swedish city (where there's a newspaper with that language used). I was even suprised that people are actually speaking Latin, as I thought before as you that Latin is a dead language. After all, some lingusts agreed that: "language is dead, if there are no new words created." We also need to distinguish WHICH Latin is dead. Sure, Roman Latin is dead - hence the problem with proper prounoncation of word Celts, which may either mean Celts with C or Kelts with Roman C=K - but Middle Age Latin is used until this day, in which it becomes slowly a Modern Latin, because there are new words for a car, computer or all these things.
The problem is what we classify as the "dead language". They are users, they are new words made in it. That's the problem to say "what is truly a dead language?"
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - /// Drake /// - 08-21-2014
(08-21-2014, 10:53 AM)Sabre Wrote:(08-21-2014, 10:27 AM)/// Drake /// Wrote: Freelancer is -what- around a millennium after the present day; those nationalities would not survive. Think about nowadays: where are the Romans, the Carthaginians, the Huns etc? NB: none of these are actual nationalities, but for the purpose of this argument, they are.imo using non-nationalities for a nationality argument is inherently flawed, but let run with it.
All the shared cultural, linguistic, culinary and historic values that created a national sentiment, and then the state which enabled the nationalism to come about, would be long extinct.
Any sort of nationality different from the 'main house nationality' would be watered down so much. It would be for all intents and purposes, dead.
I only used the term 'non-nationalities' because whether ancient or medieval nations actually existed is an academically contested idea.
Suggesting that older cultures contributed to current nationalities is a teleological way of looking at this. However, it is not my place to say whether this point is valid or not.
This topic is a genuinely interesting one too.
RE: Minorities in the Sirius - Echo 7-7 - 08-21-2014
The key geographical foci that define many 21st century cultures no longer exist and thus lose relevance. How, then, do ~1000 year old subcultures persist? Consider that the Sleeper ship colonists were most likely selected for maximum genetic diversity, thus diluting ethnic subgroups. Yes, remnants of ethnic minorities may persist through familial legacies, but outside of a distant history, what serves to define a subculture in Sirius? Certainly not shared origins in Sol.