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+--- Thread: This is balanced? (/showthread.php?tid=1201)
This is balanced? - Virus - 06-24-2006
I have become majorly annoyed at the exploiting of certain unbalances in the mod that cause ship "fads" which if last as long as they have are a sign of unbalances in the game. There are a few ships and weapons that I find... rediculous. This shall be my formal "rantathon" you do not have to read on, but for those looking into the future of the mod, I suggest you do.
RAVEN CLAW:
Ok, first and formost: the Raven Claw. This ship is way over powered. Unless you are planning on making way more of them, there needs to be some adjustments. First off, this ship has the agility of an eagle, and the generator of a Titan. That in itself is over-powered. Then you add on two extra gun mounts and you have the best fighter in existance. Not cool. Simplified:
-Titan engine
-Eagle agility
-2 EXTRA class nine gun mounts
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
-Eagle generator
-Remove two gun mounts
TALON
Secondly: The Talon. Not as overpowered as the Raven Claw, but close, to say the least. First of the over powers is the agility. It is better than an Eagle! Then the six class 10 turrets leave you with way more options than the normal fighter. The ability to put two Colada, and four Nomad guns, for example, would leave you able to fire constantly with way more shield/hull damage than any other fighter can provide (next to the Raven). Just compare it with a MKII house fighter! Simplified:
-Great than Eagle agility
-six class 10 gun mounts instead of having two be class 9.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
-Change two gun mounts to class 9.
OSIRIS
Simple: top of the line armor, highest generator. For it to have the highest generator, it should have WAAY less hull strength than it does. As it is, it can take on any other ship with the same weapons load-out and come out on top!
Let's compare it with the Bret BS, shall we?
-Two hundred thousand less armor
-Same turret number
-Two-thirds the size
-Five hundred thousand more energy
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
-At least a 400k armor reduction
OR
-Reduction of the energy by 300k to 6.2 million
OR
-Make all battleships have equal energy ratings (Kane's idea) and change the amount of armor for the ships size. Smaller battleships having less; larger having more.
That would mostly be to make up for its small size and balance it with the other ships.
CERBERUS TURRETS
Ok, this one is REALLY rediculous... Let's work with the gunboat turrets, ok?
Rheinland GB turret:
Hull: 700
Shield: 350
Energy: 7,500
Refire: 2.00
Cerberus Gunboat Turrets
Hull: 1000
Shield: 500
Energy: 27,000
Refire: 2.00
DIAMONDBACK
Hull: 1,466
Shield: 733
Energy: 293
Refire: 2.00
Ok; to start. This turret uses NINETY-THREE TIMES the amount of energy the DIAMONDBACK does, yet a lot less damage. Cerberus uses 3.6 times the amount of energy the Rheinland gunboat weapon does... Need I say that with three equipped on a Rheinland gunboat you only get seven salvos; that's only three and a half seconds of firing all three of 'em before you are down to just two. How do you plan on doing damage to something in THREE AND A HALF SECONDS??
Also, SIX Rheinland gunboat turrets and the GB FWD Gun would take FOREVER to kill another gunboats shield. Did I mention that its getting close to impossible to kill ANYTHING with energy weapons from gunboats, now? Only way to kill anymore is to use missile turrets... On fighters only!
When a single fighter can kill a gunboat (I can), why do we even have them? Is it not better just to fly a fighter? I personally think that gunboats need a MAJOR BOOST to their weapons... They should be AT LEAST Codename damage to be able to take on fighters with energy weapons...
P.S. I accept Hate Mail.
This is balanced? - Jamez - 06-24-2006
Hey Virus, you should have waited until the next version of the mod arrives to rant. (apparently soon.)
Gunboats, if Igiss makes the AA and flak turrets for them, are going to be an incredible anti-fighter force.
I still agree with what you said, but, give Igiss a chance, and lets see what the next mod brings.
This is balanced? - msmith619 - 06-24-2006
I tend to agree. I have almost all cruisers and apart from their bigger shields, they don't have much more firepower than a heavy fighter. Cruisers are supposed to be cap ship killers but many lvl 10 guns for fighters way out perform my cruiser turrets. Give me slower firing with a huge punch and it fits. Those stats Virus lists say it all......cap ship weapons drain energy and don't put out comperable damage to the energy they consume. How about making code name cap ship weapons on wrecks for us to search out and find? (Or let me mount code name fighter weapons on my cruiser.)
Baby-Doc
This is balanced? - Dab - 06-24-2006
A few of the fighter facts aren't right, but Virus is right that those two are overpowered.
Talon is not better than the eagle in agility but exactly on par with it. And with the higher energy and weapons it outshoots the eagle. An unbalanced combination. Ravenclaw does NOT have the agility of the eagle. But the agility of the Sabre or a little worse. And then can outshoot every other fighter in the game. It can easily take out a GB no matter what weapons either has. Also, an unbalanced combination. Has nobody asked why Cergerus turrets are never used? I think Virus pointed out the reason very bluntly. You can get more damage with the normal stock turrets for the same amount of energy usage, just a bit more time to shoot it. The energy consumption overides whatever positive attributes of the gun.
This is balanced? - Korrd - 06-24-2006
I agree on everything Virus said. Specially the raven.
There was a time when people used many different fighters. You could go to a massive PvP and see hussar, sabres, eagles, avengers, etc... Now, go to a PvP and you will only see Raven claws.
The last PvP ive been was a massive 5.v battle. Guess what? All the players in fighters there were in the raven Claw. (Me included) Not a single other fighter ?cept for [CUFF]ninja, and another guy. But thats because they didnt have the money to get a Raven.
I like the ship, but i dont like the fact that if you pretend to won a PvP, you need a raven to do it because it has more weps, and power output, let alone it is nearly invulnerable to missiles, and everybody has one.
I fought a guy in a raven once with my sabre, even when he wasnt an elite pilot, he almost defeats me. It took me 30min to bring down his hull with the weps of my phantom Sabre.
Raven should be removed, bus as we cant do that without the Admins having to remove every raven manually, i suggest we make it a light fighter. Raven and Thalon. Both of them are nice ships. But they dont fit in FL because they are jets, intended for atmospheric flight, not space ships.
Leaving them would be like adding F-16's, MiG-31's, ets to the mod. Nice planes, but not here. This is discovery Freelancer, not "F-16 Multi Role Fighter". No planes here.
If not, Discovery Freelancer will became the Raven's Claw Freelancer mod.
msmith619,Jun 24 2006, 04:05 PM Wrote:I tend to agree. I have almost all cruisers and apart from their bigger shields, they don't have much more firepower than a heavy fighter. Cruisers are supposed to be cap ship killers but many lvl 10 guns for fighters way out perform my cruiser turrets. Give me slower firing with a huge punch and it fits. Those stats Virus lists say it all......cap ship weapons drain energy and don't put out comperable damage to the energy they consume. How about making code name cap ship weapons on wrecks for us to search out and find? (Or let me mount code name fighter weapons on my cruiser.)Thats what i have said the last 2 mod updates. BS weaker wep should do WAY more damage than any fighter weps by far.
Baby-Doc
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Minimal damage for a bs wep should be 2000. And dont tell me about power usage as a BS power core is way bigger than a fighter power core. Hell, a fighter could fit inside a BS power core.
Let alone that a BS turret is bigger in size than a fighter too.
At this moment, a BS can be pwn by a fighter. As bs weps dont do considerable damage to small ships, let alone they are way unprecise. I remember once trying to destroy a CUFF train with my lib cruiser. And i was UNABLE to penetrate his shields with my weapons, not even dent them. Well, he had something better than a train shield. I think it was GB or cruiser. Either way, my cruiser weps shouls had been able to destroy him.
BS weps should do 3x more damage, and use 1/2 the energy they use now. BS are to fight BS, i dont care if a fighter has no chance against them, as it should be.
a BS needs the mediums to defend itself. I have wasted 150mill testing different weps config for my RH BS, and i still havent find a good weps config against BS and Fighters. Either i make it an anti BS ship, or a anti fighter ship.
Still, the best wep against a fighter is the MF turret, because it is accurate.
So, resuming my speech:
--we should do the damage increase in bs weps, at least for a beta, and see how it goes. If it is not good, we can revert them to actual levels.
--We make those 2 fighters not the best fighters arround, so people uses again the wide veriety of fighters available.
--I cant do any comment about the Osiris as i have never used that ship
This is balanced? - Nightfall - 06-24-2006
OK, my 2 cents:
Virus: Osiris -
Mostly I agree, but I very well know that an Osiris dies of ONE Heavy Mortar if out of shields - even with the armor it has (maybe a litle skill is needed to place the HMortar right... but in 90% of cases my opponents in Osiris were taken down by 1 HMortar after I took their shields)
Dab: Ravenclaw -
I think the Ravenclaw is more agile than the Sabre (I fly them both) and the Talon is in between (I fly one of those too)
This is balanced? - Dab - 06-24-2006
Talon is more agile than the Raven Night. You got them backwards. Talon is better than sabre and Raven in between. I think the Eagle should remain the most agile VHF in the game. It should keep that uniqueness. Osiris should suffer only a 200k armor reduction, and maybe a power reduction (though the BS I and BSA have bigger ones even I think).
This is balanced? - Kane - 06-24-2006
Nope. The Osiris has the biggest energy rating in the game, besides the BStar II.
The BStar and BStar Adv. have 5,500,000 energy ratings. Both of them. The Osiris had a 6,000,000 energy rating. Aaaand the BStar II has a 9,000,000 energy rating.
This is balanced? - marauder - 06-24-2006
Why hasn't anyone suggested returning the osiris to it's orignal number of turrets?, if we drop it's turrets back to 8 and it's energy to 5.5 or 5 mil, then people will switch back to other BSs.
It's getting really pointless RPing when house factions are using osiris's because they think the house BS will get beaten easily.
We really do need to stop people in a house faction from using ships that 'are the best' or are 'better' the NPC faction their aligned with.
I can see why you'd use different guns, but not ships.
This is balanced? - Dab - 06-24-2006
What happened to House factions restricting house faction tagged chars to house faction ship. As far as I know RM still does it. But SF used to as well. Now you see SF in Liberty Dreadnaughts and Osiris'. If we had a BS that wasn't for house factions, pirates, or groups like the order I'd have Aw use it, unfortunately we don't. I want to know what happened to everyone and made them forget about the RP aspect of the server. Oh wait, I know! Almost everyone, especially newer people, care more about winning the fight and gloating than having fun or doing RP. You guys are almost as bad as the average Starcraft player. And they are pretty d*mned bad.