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+--- Thread: Dragons, Rise & Shine? (/showthread.php?tid=12134)
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Dragons, Rise & Shine? - Cawdor - 09-15-2008
Dev thread: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23352
' Wrote:[...]
imo - the ship looks very kusarish and very much like the way it is intended to be used - as an assault capital ship for hit and run charges. - having such a ship makes a lot more sense for the dragons than having a ship like the togo.
however, we might want to revise our point of view of the dragons. - i myself have some problems with that, too. - but we should maybe just face the facts. the dragons are one of the largest factions around. - no less than two playerfactions and countless non-factionized players form up the ranks of the dragons. - many more than there are hessians for example ( the third largest pirate faction in sirius ) - and almost as many as there are outcasts.... and definitely more than there are KNF ( funny thing there )
maybe the dragons should not be regarded as being "poor" or low on numbers anymore, but should reflect their strength in what they fly. that would be upon igiss to decide what direction the factions go. - nothing wrong with saying that some pirate groups are crumbling and falling, while others raise and grow more powerful.
so, in such terms - it would be ... not like the IRA having tanks. - but as if sin fain ( sp ) the legal party of the IRA was .... well, growing more powerful, more influencial and installing a semi- legal leader based on the new popularity. - once done, the idea of "modern military gear" does not seem too far fetched anymore. - of course in RL it means that the violent part of the IRA would loose power, while at the same time the politicians of the IRA gained power. - a shift in powers from violence and terror towards legality to form up a REAL goverment. - but .... isn t that what the dragons crave to do?
Well, Jinx made a point there. Now those dragons have their bunch of caps. And it looks like we have to deal with it, since people are not willing to get their chars wiped or just remove the caps from the selling points and nerf it to the ground (like 1k hull).
So if we think about the dragons as "powerfull" as the hessians, its clear that they need something else to be concerned with instead of just throwing everything they got at the government. If the hessians wouldnt have a war to struggle in the omegas, they would have overthrown the government long ago, for example.
So my basic suggestion is, that we might want to throw them into war with ... someone. Right now, they are all nice and dandy with Outcasts but considering the possilbe scale of the dragons, they'd be the only "underground faction" to keep them and their battleships entertained.
though ... its just a quick thought. I really ain't into dragon's business :$
discuss.
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - ferongr - 09-15-2008
My original post in the dev forum Wrote:Since multifactioning is allowed here, and faction member numbers are not moderated according to established lore, this analogy fails. I do believe players should be able to shape things in an RP server dynamically, but, according to the example of the Bood Dragons, there should be some self-moderation by established factions ("Hold on! We do not want more members or the Kusari Navy will get alarmed by our growth and come and bombard Kyoto to smithereens!")
Also many people join factions just for the sake of joining them, while the faction itself rarely has members online, unless it's some pre-organised "Battle Slot" (I hate those things, I believe engagements should not be organised as events, but in case of pirate or revolutionary groups, as silent hit-and-run attacks).
And regarding OP's post: If the Dragons deserve that, same goes for Xenos, having many players affiliated with them, active and all (and also, very efficient).
I would support giving the Xenos gunboats (their ID is restricted like a pirate ID at the moment, so I do not think that a gunboat would hurt), but also a couple more bases in Liberty, not to mention an alliance with Lane Hackers and Liberty Rogues (both of them being Libertonian unlawfuls).
Now, compare both cases and tell me what you think.
(Clarification: I am not taking in account LPI and LN member count, since it's the most obvious move for a new player to join them, especially if he dislikes the noob-start in a server.)
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - Cawdor - 09-15-2008
Well, I also have a problem with giving them too much power but the main point is that they already have a Battleship and that we have to deal with it. So basically there are three solutions:
1. ignore the problem and slander about it once in a while
2. Remove it
3. Bring the Hosts on a level where it sounds reasonable for them to have a battleship.
Since we do no1 from day one and failed at no2 (no wipez ma cap plx!!!11), I am sorta proposing to start thinking about no3.
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - ferongr - 09-15-2008
You can remove a ship without a character wipe. Just nerf it to oblivion (100 hull etc), and have it for sale in a restricted base (like the Lost Battlestar).
(Also, check the dump of the VF)
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - Culebra - 09-15-2008
What happen to playing the gritty underdog? The freedom fighter in a older ship but makes it through because of dedication to his cause? Every group wants a big bad ship for some reason. I still don't understand where these pirate groups that don't own any planets find the resources to build so many ships, let alone gunboats, cruisers, and battleships.
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - ferongr - 09-15-2008
Resources do not come only from planets. But resources are the least in building ships (in general, not only capital). To build a high-tech fighter, hundrends of different branches need to work together in order to design it. Every part of the ship (armor, power, propulsion, hull, internal structure, general engineering skills to fit everything in a usable form...) needs a lot of designing before going into production.
Regarding the above and capital ships, other branches come into play, like architects to design living spaces, life-support specialists to design a way to accommodate hundreds of crew members and troops, and also you need some major engineering knowledge in order to complete the project.
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - old.steel - 09-15-2008
As a 'dev' from somewhere else:
We need to enforce the roleplay.
Every new guy is trading and gets a pirate char - just he can blow up things.
In fact this is a PvP server with RP elements.
I apricciated the effort to create new designs but no one is focusing on the role-play.
I can only judge this on my news but it will not change i fear.
In fact this is a ordinary server with RP elements now.
I know the admins team is - busy - and i cannot suggest a solution that would fit.
spoken as a dev
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - Culebra - 09-15-2008
Well that being said Ferongr how could a pirate group build such a ship? And there will not be just one there will be several and not all of them will belong to blood dragons.
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - ferongr - 09-15-2008
@ Old Steel
This has nothing to do with independent players, or even the faction members. It has to do with (how to put it...) pushing factional RP beyond limits set by estabilished Freelancer lore.
Also, I attribute the large numbers of players in certain playerfactions to either low reqruitment standarts, the lust of many players to have many characters they rarely use (unless in case of pre-organised events) or both.
@ Culebra
Well... How could they indeed? That's what I am putting on the table. Corsairs, Ourcast, Red Hessians, all have the know-how and resources to build fighters and capital ships.
The Blood Dragon VHF is heavily based (in my opinion, its not cannon) to it's equivalent of the Kusari Navy.
The Rogue ships are very crudely made, which is a point (also, the rogues having many bases in Liberty etc) are not what I call small in numbers.
The Borderworld series is a joint project by many borderworld groups (not only the Outcasts, and are used by many factions, thus pushing the development forward.
The Corsairs are unique in the bunch, having (even in vanilla) a complete line of very good ships created by them exclusively. I suspect the fact that Crete is full of resources contributed to this, since they did not have to engage in lengthy expeditions to find them, like other houses. Before tradelanes and jumpgates, a round-trip between California and New York took 6 months, while New York's resources only lasted until they had enough to start building commercial ships (transports were the first class of ship to be built by the Houses).
The above is cannon http://www.7crows.com/files/Freelancer%20L...%20Overview.pdf
(regarding the PDF: Valhala Engineering is Ageira, Sirius Shipping is Universal Shipping, Nutraform is Synthfoods, Monument Engineering is Deep Space engineering, the Order of Cincinnati is NOT the Order, but something a freelancer would never know about, hence there is no lore about them.)
For all the others, there is the Civilian line.
Edit: Old Steel: I support RP balancing, not PVP balancing.
Dragons, Rise & Shine? - old.steel - 09-15-2008
How can any pirate faction beside o/c build own ships?
AoM do a hell of a work, but are all these ships needed?
Fun vs. possible rp, hard thingy
@ferongr, you got no idea about balancing.