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+--- Thread: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement (/showthread.php?tid=121811)
Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Zen_Mechanics - 10-15-2014
To admins,
It has come to my attention ( and not just recently ) that people conflate with the Zoner ID. The ID prevents Independent zoners from engaging foes that once made an aggressive stance toward them. A good example would be of a pirate shooting a zoner at one day, and shows up another day, fully expecting the zoner to be "zoner". Alot of independent zoners don't have friends or people with connections, and they don't have bounty boards to which they can ask for assistance so they depend on themselves - but already I've seen evidence of this abuse against some poor zoners simply acting accordingly. You should state that zoners ARE allowed to engage people who have engaged in piracy or hostility towards them, This should not just be limited to bounty boards or FR5 ( in a Indie case, theres none ). I don't think its wise to "restart" a zoner's memory everyday expecting him to follow the guidelines while all other groups/factions are perfectly capable of remembering people and shooting them down anyday.
And I know for some people it does't make sense, and I guess for them its not supposed to make sense, but it doesn't make sense on a "are you insane" level. People take rules literally and sometimes otherwise, and theres this double standards with zoners. So when you want to give more perks to officials, May I also suggest keeping an eye on the Indies, because after all - they are the majority of the population here - and new people have no friends to support them so ofcourse it is easy to sanction them - they are zoners and newbies = 100% success, Isn't that right?
Thank you.
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Leppy - 10-15-2014
(10-15-2014, 08:32 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: To admins,
It has come to my attention ( and not just recently ) that people conflate with the Zoner ID. The ID prevents Independent zoners from engaging foes that once made an aggressive stance toward them. A good example would be of a pirate shooting a zoner at one day, and shows up another day, fully expecting the zoner to be "zoner". Alot of independent zoners don't have friends or people with connections, and they don't have bounty boards to which they can ask for assistance so they depend on themselves - but already I've seen evidence of this abuse against some poor zoners simply acting accordingly. You should state that zoners ARE allowed to engage people who have engaged in piracy or hostility towards them, This should not just be limited to bounty boards or FR5 ( in a Indie case, theres none ). I don't think its wise to "restart" a zoner's memory everyday expecting him to follow the guidelines while all other groups/factions are perfectly capable of remembering people and shooting them down anyday.
And I know for some people it does't make sense, and I guess for them its not supposed to make sense, but it doesn't make sense on a "are you insane" level. People take rules literally and sometimes otherwise, and theres this double standards with zoners. So when you want to give more perks to officials, May I also suggest keeping an eye on the Indies, because after all - they are the majority of the population here - and new people have no friends to support them so ofcourse it is easy to sanction them - they are zoners and newbies = 100% success, Isn't that right?
Thank you.
So ummm exactly how far back would one be allowed to take this?
If I pirate up a handful of zoners on Oct 23, 2014 would said zoners be allowed to KoS me 3 weeks later on Nov 14, 2014? What about Nov 7? Oct 30? How far exactly do we let people use one interaction as an excuse for a KoS free for all?
Also, this little conundrum doesn't only apply to zoners. Freelancers, for example, generally have to be treated in that exact same manner by most IDs. If I catch a freelancer helping out a pirate on my LN toon, I don't automatically get to pop him 3 days later if I see him sitting next to Manhattan.
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Zen_Mechanics - 10-15-2014
(10-15-2014, 08:53 PM)Leppy Wrote:(10-15-2014, 08:32 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: To admins,
It has come to my attention ( and not just recently ) that people conflate with the Zoner ID. The ID prevents Independent zoners from engaging foes that once made an aggressive stance toward them. A good example would be of a pirate shooting a zoner at one day, and shows up another day, fully expecting the zoner to be "zoner". Alot of independent zoners don't have friends or people with connections, and they don't have bounty boards to which they can ask for assistance so they depend on themselves - but already I've seen evidence of this abuse against some poor zoners simply acting accordingly. You should state that zoners ARE allowed to engage people who have engaged in piracy or hostility towards them, This should not just be limited to bounty boards or FR5 ( in a Indie case, theres none ). I don't think its wise to "restart" a zoner's memory everyday expecting him to follow the guidelines while all other groups/factions are perfectly capable of remembering people and shooting them down anyday.
And I know for some people it does't make sense, and I guess for them its not supposed to make sense, but it doesn't make sense on a "are you insane" level. People take rules literally and sometimes otherwise, and theres this double standards with zoners. So when you want to give more perks to officials, May I also suggest keeping an eye on the Indies, because after all - they are the majority of the population here - and new people have no friends to support them so ofcourse it is easy to sanction them - they are zoners and newbies = 100% success, Isn't that right?
Thank you.
So ummm exactly how far back would one be allowed to take this?
If I pirate up a handful of zoners on Oct 23, 2014 would said zoners be allowed to KoS me 3 weeks later on Nov 14, 2014? What about Nov 7? Oct 30? How far exactly do we let people use one interaction as an excuse for a KoS free for all?
Also, this little conundrum doesn't only apply to zoners. Freelancers, for example, generally have to be treated in that exact same manner by most IDs. If I catch a freelancer helping out a pirate on my LN toon, I don't automatically get to pop him 3 days later if I see him sitting next to Manhattan.
Yes. Your character doesn't reborn everyday with new memories, otherwise - you wouldn't be in factions if that was the case. The problem is the assumptions that people ( and I might add, you ) take about this matter. Regardless of how we feel about it, The buck doesn't stop at 12.pm - And if you think this gives your character license of immunity from newbies or people who have no Idea about this issue - then you shouldn't comment here - And this is not about Freelancers in Manhattan, This is about "free sanction ticket for zoners" - That is being systematically exploited, Or quasi-lawful for that matter
And this : "If I pirate up a handful of zoners on Oct 23, 2014 would said zoners be allowed to KoS me 3 weeks later on Nov 14, 2014? What about Nov 7? Oct 30? How far exactly do we let people use one interaction as an excuse for a KoS free for all?" - Are you serious ? Because if you are, you should go check the wikipedia for common sense,
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Chrystoph - 10-15-2014
(10-15-2014, 08:53 PM)Leppy Wrote: If I pirate up a handful of zoners on Oct 23, 2014 would said zoners be allowed to KoS me 3 weeks later on Nov 14, 2014? What about Nov 7? Oct 30? How far exactly do we let people use one interaction as an excuse for a KoS free for all?
Also, this little conundrum doesn't only apply to zoners. Freelancers, for example, generally have to be treated in that exact same manner by most IDs. If I catch a freelancer helping out a pirate on my LN toon, I don't automatically get to pop him 3 days later if I see him sitting next to Manhattan.
I don't believe it should equate to a hunting license, but that is not what is being asked for. What is being asked for is the right to not have to wait until someone already has a knife in your back before you respond.
If I am out in the middle of nowhere and the pirate that ganked me in the past is headed specifically toward me, I should be allowed to respond. If said pirate is just hanging out somewhere and I can avoid him, to me, that is the appropriate course.
Let's face it, both Zoners and Freelancers are d'facto Quasi-Lawfuls with a limited ability to appeal to authority. That being the case, they have to be able to defend themselves.
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Enkidu - 10-15-2014
Making the already disproportionately broken Zoner ID even more buffed by giving them military-style engagement principles would severely unbalance the game; there'd be no gameplay advantage to playing anything but Zoner, and trust me, I play nothing but.
Zoners are meant to be able to talk their way out of anything; thus, talk your way out of everything. It's entirely doable regardless of who the problem player is. If you're getting shot, then you're not doing something right.
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Chrystoph - 10-15-2014
(10-15-2014, 09:26 PM)Dunc- Wrote: Making the already disproportionately broken Zoner ID even more buffed by giving them military-style engagement principles would severely unbalance the game; there'd be no gameplay advantage to playing anything but Zoner, and trust me, I play nothing but.
Zoners are meant to be able to talk their way out of anything; thus, talk your way out of everything. It's entirely doable regardless of who the problem player is. If you're getting shot, then you're not doing something right.
Just curious, are all of your ships completely unarmed?
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Thyrzul - 10-15-2014
Yea, why not? Let them start the brawls, let Zoners be the vigilantes of the outer Zones they inhabit. Just make sure to take away everything but their snubs and transports in the process. You know, just to keep things balanced and logical, after all we want to have things making sense, don't we?
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Highland Laddie - 10-15-2014
Zoners greatest defense is supposed to be their diplomacy, not a strong defense (with the exception being Nomad relations).
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Moberg - 10-15-2014
My zoner ships are completely unarmed. As long as you stay valuable to those who potentially endanger you, chances are little you're going to get blown up. That's the spirit of individuals spread across Sirius with different goals and with low numbers, their big similarity being the Zoner lifestyle, far from the limitations and rule of the houses. If you can not rely on the safety of house militaries, you have to show them that you're more useful alive than dead. Taking Freeport 10 as an example: If they were to deny Outcasts docking rights and would let station defenses shoot at them, the Freeport would lose its use towards the Outcasts and overrun by warships that would conquer it within a week.
//edit: Even when it comes to Nomads, who are more likely to be hostile towards you, you have factions that have anti-nomad specialization. Order and Core can be valuable allies, if you have something to give in return. They're dealing with Nomads for you. And if you venture too far out alone in the dangerous Omicrons, you shouldn't be surprised that death can come swiftly and without mercy.
I'd also like to agree with Thyr'zul here. I don't think a fleet of warships can be maintained, even less built by yourself if you're that diverse. You can't have all slices of the cake.
RE: Zoner ID Issue/Improvement - Zen_Mechanics - 10-15-2014
Perhaps I should have bolded " newbies and unheard of zoners" who are not explicitly peaceful like you are, or have the reputation on their heads - And #Thryluz, I understand your frustration and anger with zoners but If that is the case then why do you bother commenting and more over, commenting in a bad way, a not productive one.
@Lord, You can still keep your peaceful ways if thats how you want to play, but The vast numbers here are newbies and beginners - You want them to adapt into one conglomerate & centerlised philosophy because you and some others have been here before them and somehow you are legally positioned to dictate things, Although you don't specificly do that - your support of that notion still applies. Also, This Idea was presented a few weeks ago with good odds but has since been graved - I'm not a minority here but since the factions don't raise a finger in this regard - Someone has to. I should also mention that this is not an ID change so much as just an "allowance" - an exception if you like, So that no one will victimise people who are in no position to defend themselves, Oh yes - You mention your own stance, but what about them - what about their right? Remember them? You don't see me whine about these things because of something personal that happened to me, Or something that I always wanted to do - No, I see too many victims of this demonizing none sense and If people were decent enough not to jump on a few people who are here just to have fun - There wouldn't be any need for rules or regulations - but People are dumb and stupid, a Human is smart.