Message to the Junkers Congress

Message to the Junkers Congress - Printable Version

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Message to the Junkers Congress - Nightsmoke - 09-22-2008

To: Junkers Congress
From : Dragon Hiza Tozomoto
Re: Your so called neutrality

Well the truth is clear now Junkers, while you preach neutrality, you put a Corsair in charge of Yanagi, and now, innocent Dragons, just trying to dock for supplies are attacked by Harvesters not 300m from Yanagi, while a Junkers Congress member looked on, without caring, telling me that Harvesters are not Junkers, so I guess that means they dont have to follow the rules you lay down, It seems just as the Corsairs.

You claim you want us to discuss these things with you, yet your ships do nothing to guarantee our safety in the Zone of you base. Why should we take to you, when you allow us to be indiscriminately attacked. Here are my recordings of the event, so all can see what the fabled Junker neutrality has come to, so all can see you are nothing but Corsair lovers.

Well Junkers, what do you say now about the safety of Dragons at your base, with the evidence out here for everyone to see, what is your response?

Message to the Junkers Congress - Tenacity - 09-22-2008

The Harvesters are not under our control in any way, there isnt much that Jack Crow could have done if he wanted to. If the harvesters find any reason to turn on junkers, they'd easily wipe us out.

Further, there's been a lot of hostile fire from all groups at yanagi lately. Right now, you shouldnt be surprised in the least if something like this happens. You're best off just avoiding that station entirely.

Message to the Junkers Congress - Linkero - 09-22-2008

::Incoming Transmission::
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To: Dragon Hiza Tozomoto
From: ,:j:.Linux
Subject:Re: Your so called neutrality

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Jack Crow is correct. Harvesters ARE NOT Junkers. Read this quote from this link: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21662

Quote:Harvesters...Where do we stand?

Many Junker (and other) players were and are "worried" about the Harvesters. Here is the official "Junker Congress" view of Harvesters. The Harvesters are an "invasive species" in Junker society. Wanting or not wanting them is irrelevant...they are here now. Fortunately, Harvester and Junker Congress faction development began almost on the same day and immediately collided with one another as both the Congress and Harvesters had begun with the same ZOIs and interests. At that time, the Harvesters outgunned the Junkers in every way and negotiation was the only option. In typical Junker fashion, Junkers negotiated a situation that was disadvantageous to them into one that was advantageous. For this reason, Junkers need take no responsibility for Harvester action as they are fully autonomous faction of their own and can also rely on Harvester defense if attacked by other groups while Harvesters are present. In return, Harvesters receive basing rights and guarantees of non-Hostility by Congress members. Speaker Tinkerbell has the distinction of "knowing" the first Harvester and having dialogued with it since its arrival in Liberty. As a result, a level of "logical" trust has developed between Harvesters and the Congress. So long as that logic and predictability holds, the arrangement remains mutually beneficial. This is little different than the relationship maintained by Junkers with the Outcasts and Corsairs. Essentially, "Do what thou wilt and cause no harm" to Junkers. Having a relationships with the Harvesters is akin to having nuclear weapons. The risks and advantages are understood and never taken for granted but the advantages are used to the Congress (and Junkers) benefit. It is simple, pragmatic reality and "status quo" that makes the relationship viable and the Congress will seek to maintain that in order to eliminate Harvester risk and maintain the benefits of the alliance with them.

The agreement with Harvesters by the Junker Congress provides exclusion from attack by Harvesters so long as Junkers do not attack Harvesters. We are not obligated to defend Harvesters nor take sides in their conflicts--any more than we take sides in dealing with Outcasts and Corsairs. We also will not act to defend Junkers who willfully attack Harvesters for reason other than self defense from an unprovoked attack. If at any time either party violates these terms intentionally, the relationship and terms will be reassessed.

Also while you are at it read the rest of that page to better understand what the Junkers Congress stands for. As long as the Junkers congress and Harvesters have this agreement we WILL NOT attack each other. Sorry for you having to be on your own in that fight.

Edit: I agree with Tenacity. It is best to just stay away from Yanagi until Neutrality is brought there again. In the recent events it is pretty unsafe for anyone to be going there. I myself have also been avoiding it recently

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Message to the Junkers Congress - Pinz - 09-22-2008

I would disagree.. Correct me If I am wrong but Harvesters essentially work on logic and facts. Therefore If the Jack crow had told the Harvester to respect the Neutril zone or they May loose docking rights at Yanagi and other Junker bases then the Logical choice would have been for the harester to disengage and wait outside of the Neutril zone.
Thew power of diplomacy

(edit) This would require a defined Neutril zone like 2 k and closer to yanagi is safe zone

Message to the Junkers Congress - Nightsmoke - 09-22-2008

Open response from Dragon Hiza Tozomoto

Tenacity maybe you are right, maybe if Yanagi was run like Bornholme has been until recently, things would be safer for everyone.

And to others, this is not a matter of whether Harvesters are Junkers or not, the issue is whether Dragons, or Outcasts, or anyone on the OC side of the war are safe coming to Yanagi, with the Harvesters and a Corsair in charge. The Junkers get upset when OC and Dragons bring Caps to Yanagi, but the problem is, the Junkers dont seem to give a damn about our safety, so we need to create our own. I say it is time for the Dragons and OC to declare the Junkers a hostile group, because while they may not openly attack us, they supply and provide safe haven for our enemies, while withholding this same safe haven to us. They are the same as our enemies, and should be treated as such.

Message to the Junkers Congress - Tenacity - 09-22-2008

' Wrote:I would disagree.. Correct me If I am wrong but Harvesters essentially work on logic and facts. Therefore If the Jack crow had told the Harvester to respect the Neutril zone or they May loose docking rights at Yanagi and other Junker bases then the Logical choice would have been for the harester to disengage and wait outside of the Neutril zone.
Thew power of diplomacy

(edit) This would require a defined Neutril zone like 2 k and closer to yanagi is safe zone

Docking rights are not a matter of importance to the harvesters, really. They have their nanoclouds which can perform ship construction and repair in the dead of space.

The 'treaty' set up between junkers and harvesters essentially prevents them from shooting us to bits, while allowing them to harvest resources from the fields around our stations without our interference. That is the entire extent of the allegiance, past that the harvesters work on their own.

Message to the Junkers Congress - Serpentis - 09-22-2008

Transmission starts
Message to: Dragon Hiza Tozomoto
Forwarded to: All Concerning Parties
Comm ID: Jack Matthews, Adjudicator of Bornholm.
Location: Bornholm Depot, Omega 15.

This is a sad thing that has occured in Sigma 13, to know that the Harvesters have used one of our Depots as a staging ground to attack docking ships, no matter what they are.
But to defend the actions of the Congress member Jack Crow, if he had tried to stop the Harvesters they could have attacked him. But i agree that Rules shall be followed no matter what, therefor i request that the Adjudicator of Yanagi depot sort this situation out, ASAP.
There need to be rules in place or the Harvies may interpret the now official rules regarding the zone around depot as to the extent that they may ignore them!
Even if the Harvesters dont see the Dragons as Neutral the Congress does and if Harvester Units use the yanagi depot they should follow those rules.

Setup a map where the "no fire" zone is and transmit it to the Harvesters.

Transmission Ends

Message to the Junkers Congress - Tenacity - 09-22-2008

Quote:I say it is time for the Dragons and OC to declare the Junkers a hostile group, because while they may not openly attack us, they supply and provide safe haven for our enemies, while withholding this same safe haven to us. They are the same as our enemies, and should be treated as such.

You ought to think more carefully before you open your mouth, dragon. Do you have any idea what you're suggesting with that comment?

Let me spell it out for you - junkers handle over ninety percent of the cardamine trade, because the outcasts with their infertility do not have the numbers or the knowledge of lawful operations to carry the majority of cardamine smuggling out themselves.

The outcasts declare war on us, and they lose their sole source of income. We tip off the authorities every time an outcast tries to move a shipment of cardamine, we deny outcasts docking rights at our bases, we refuse to move cardamine for them any longer. Without us, the outcasts do not have access to the sirius black market, and lose the majority of their weapons and ship components shipments. The outcast fleets crumble, and with them - their allies.

And if the dragons should declare war on us? You wouldnt have time to let that betrayal slip off your tongue before we've tipped off the kusari and corsair forces as to the location of kyoto base. Your precious home would crumble under their direct bombardment, and kusari would be rid of the dragon problem forever.

Without their shipments of cardamine, of which we supply the bulk from malta, the golden chrysanthemums would go into violent withdrawals and would find themselves unable to fight - the dragons would lose their greatest ally within kusari space.

You dont double cross a junker, because we can hit you twice as hard with denial of our services and the information we hold about your operations.

And one last thing to add, no true warrior of kusari would cry about the harvesters to a foreign entity expecting them to do something about the situation. You've brought dishonor to yourself and your family by doing so, I think you know what that means.

Message to the Junkers Congress - Nightsmoke - 09-22-2008

' Wrote:You ought to think more carefully before you open your mouth, dragon. Do you have any idea what you're suggesting with that comment?

Let me spell it out for you - junkers handle over ninety percent of the cardamine trade, because the outcasts with their infertility do not have the numbers or the knowledge of lawful operations to carry the majority of cardamine smuggling out themselves.

The outcasts declare war on us, and they lose their sole source of income. We tip off the authorities every time an outcast tries to move a shipment of cardamine, we deny outcasts docking rights at our bases, we refuse to move cardamine for them any longer. Without us, the outcasts do not have access to the sirius black market, and lose the majority of their weapons and ship components shipments. The outcast fleets crumble, and with them - their allies.

And if the dragons should declare war on us? You wouldnt have time to let that betrayal slip off your tongue before we've tipped off the kusari and corsair forces as to the location of kyoto base. Your precious home would crumble under their direct bombardment, and kusari would be rid of the dragon problem forever.

Without their shipments of cardamine, of which we supply the bulk from malta, the golden chrysanthemums would go into violent withdrawals and would find themselves unable to fight - the dragons would lose their greatest ally within kusari space.

You dont double cross a junker, because we can hit you twice as hard with denial of our services and the information we hold about your operations.

And one last thing to add, no true warrior of kusari would cry about the harvesters to a foreign entity expecting them to do something about the situation. You've brought dishonor to yourself and your family by doing so, I think you know what that means.

Hate to disagree with you buddy, but more than fifty percent of the transports leaving Alpha when I am there are independent smugglers with no affiliation, plus the operations of the BLS, your 90% seems to be a huge over estimate. The GC are most probably getting there Cardimine directly from Alpha, due to the high number of GC ships there and the fact that Hokkido is only 4 jumps from Alpha. As to access to the Black Market, I am sure the Zoners would be very happy to have us spend the money we give to the Junkers at their Freeports. As to Kyoto, The KNF have been close for years and still cant seem to find it, even having been told several times in fact, which just makes me think they dont want to risk an assault while at war with Bretonia. As for income, there are many rogues and assorted unlawfuls who would relish the opportunity to make a huge profit in your absence.

Message to the Junkers Congress - Tenacity - 09-22-2008

Oh how little you know.

I'll return when this little dragon learns something of sirius politics and can put some lash in his tongue. It's a waste of time arguing with a child who has no concept of how galactic economics work past his own sad rock.