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+---- Thread: Transport regens (/showthread.php?tid=123485)
Transport regens - Emile - 12-08-2014
I play this game for some time now and i am wondering about Transport balance. We all like to have more interactions on the tradelanes with pirates. But if a pirate won't be able to destroy a transport. This because:
1. NPC stations too near
2. Cau8 armors
3. Big loadouts on battletransports (if properly flown you can even kill cruisers with 2 or more battletransports with cau 8)
The sollutions could be hard to get more people interested in pirating. To change a complete game with npc stations because they are too close is too much. BUT to remove the ability for Transports to have bats and Bots would not. This will give the transport captains a more cautious side, maybe even hire more escorts. WIth big convoys they cannot make sure to trade these repairs so they all will manage to survive. They will have to make sure the pirates will not be able to remain on the same target to shoot.
Thoughts?
RE: Transport regens - sindroms - 12-08-2014
One of the features of Disco is that it allows all of the existing ship classes to be used as a RP or PVP platform. Just because we happen to use them for cargo transporting does not mean that they are still ships built to survive in a harsh environment.
These are my two cents as both a pirate and a trader.
Escorts cannot be hired due to low population and the low income from regular cargo hauling. Escorts do not want to fly between two houses for two million credits. Only miners can afford that. The ''get an escort'' line for these threads have been shot down before already.
RE: Transport regens - Carlos De La Cruz - 12-08-2014
(12-08-2014, 03:24 PM)Emile Wrote: Thoughts?
Junker transport and GB..especially GB with enough cargo to mount CAU8...They are horribly OP for me...
I haven't seen so many transports with cau8 yet - cargo space is generally more valuable than few mlns they need to pay to the pirates.. But those to pirate vessels are enough to destroy any other GB alone..AFAIK transports too.
As for the escorts: for 2 mlns not, but for 4 I could fly one direction with some trader with bomber or gb. For 2 I could engage to scary pirate during robbery :-)
RE: Transport regens - Exploration - 12-08-2014
I find I've never been pirated often enough to know about the PvP aspect. Frankly regens are to me, to fix the damage from radiation and dying every five minutes because I don't have regens to deal with radiation, accidently skimming a corona or NPC swarms. You'd probably get bored blowing up over and over. Trains for example, kinda rely on regens to not die.
RE: Transport regens - zalsrevenge - 12-08-2014
I think if you remove bats and bots, you should at least get some extra space in your hold for "danger pay"
There aren't many people playing here, so good luck finding escorts.
RE: Transport regens - Binski - 12-08-2014
Well, as someone who pirates in a transport, I've found attacking transports with CAU is pretty pointless. You pretty much need a bomber.
Ironically, the 'lone' individual bomber pirate, is OP. Yes I said it. Its actually the same for Freelancers. Independents don't really get their hands on hardcore military equipment, unless it comes from a Faction that uses them. Makes sense for Xenos and Rogues, other rebel groups. Fighters? Sure, freelancer escort services could legit use fighters, but do FL's need bombers? Wouldn't a house see it as a little dangerous to let any independent civilian fly a bomber in their space? Especially since they have a tendency to wind up with pirates?
So everyone cries about what's OP or not these days, while they fly around with CUA8's on their transports. If you run into a transport, few have all that high regens, but the uber high armor, which ironically states in the almighty infocard 'armor for capital ships' makes transport piracy very difficult, and so people jump over to bombers to make it a lot easier. Yet a nerf for the BS scanner was introduced, since they're also only for 'capital ships', making it a stretch to put them on anything else.
Solution? Remove CAU's from going on transports, or nerf (can't believe me of all people said that). People might actually go out and pirate as it was supposed to be, in a pirate ship. Not just a bomber, that someone must have taken from a group that uses/sells them, so you can nova/snac the transport to death with great ease. When was the last time I saw a rogue in a bullmastif pirating for cargo? I can't remember. Bombers are anti-cap snubs, and are highly abused against traders that have no defense but jacking the armor to the point of it being OP. I often wonder how many out there would still be able to get kills without snacs or novas in their loadout.
And honestly, even a faction member in a bomber might have trouble with a lone CUA'd transport if they're close to a base. They run because they know the armor might save them just long enough to dock. Less armor and no more independent ID'd bombers (FL or Pirate) means more faction based bomber piracy, and more successful extortions. Doesn't mean the end of independent piracy, just means it gets a little more challenging for the pirate, and a little easier on the trader. For pvp battles, the odds would certainly be more evened out.
Although that wouldn't mean factions get the right to charge 10 mil per pirating ship or something crazy, if you have them by the throat, you've won, take a couple mil per ship and move on to the next one. Keep it bearable on the traders and they won't miss that armor so much, at that point only the stubborn suffer.
RE: Transport regens - Tenacity - 12-08-2014
I've always been of the opinion that pirates simply need to be more reasonable in Disco. Pirates like to charge blanketed fee amounts - the same amount of credits no matter who they're taking it from. Goes back to the old "5milordai" meme.
Pirate players obviously have no real interest in making money, they're just out for a way to shoot less combat-capable ships. If they cared about the money, they'd take into account the player's cargo size, cargo type, origin, and destination and figure out a reasonable fee so that the trader isnt left bankrupt. I've had pirate players try to charge me 3 million credits when my cargo wasnt even worth that much to begin with.
RE: Transport regens - Zed26 - 12-08-2014
Runners gonna run, even with reasonable demands and less survivability. If anything, the fear of exploding due to these proposed changes will decrease interactions with some traders, who will watch the player list, fly above/below plane, or PM other traders in order to skip interactions altogether. As it is, people actually pay for more "scouting" than "escorting" so they can go around pirates and avoid any risk.
For pirates, keeping encounters interesting and the "sustainable" demands suggested by others in the thread are also important. Trading is already boring, so having to pull over and pay a generic demand for a fixed amount definitely doesn't help. If you feel you can't type fast enough, set up a /setmsg that's more fun and elaborate than just "#t cut your engines!"
However, some people simply won't stop - even if I've legitimately been looking to chat or even offered to give them something. There isn't much to be gained by chasing them to "teach them a lesson" or getting upset by it. Think of it this way - if they're running without a word now, they'll probably run again, and if you hit them hard as punishment, there's a chance they'll metagame to avoid you even catching them on scanners in the future. Write them off and get ready for an interaction that really is rewarding.
RE: Transport regens - Emile - 12-08-2014
The problem lies mostly with the Capital armors on the transports. Do not forget that a capital armor upgrade 8 gives you 4x the amount of hull. That combined with regens you get most of the time 6x a full hull compared to someone without any armor. I believe it would be the best for the interactions to remove the regens, and keep the precious capital armors people have. This will make less spamming of the regens but more time for the transport to focus on his escape or defence.
I only regret that people here only vote no just because they like the way it is, but sometimes things has to be changed for the better. Maybe this is one of them, also if someone votes no. Could you please say why not? The ones replying here usually havent voted at all. They just give their point of view. Something i respect more then the voting, just because people think about it.
RE: Transport regens - Jack_Henderson - 12-08-2014
Silly idea. Sorry, can't say anything else.
The real issue is that the thrust speeds of transports were buffed. Therefore transports can almost always make it to base.
Also transport guns are pretty strong.
The fix is to reduce the thrust speeds back to normal (before the buff).
This makes interactions longer, makes it harder for traders to reach port and adds more chance to the pirate.
I agree in one point: transports are too hard to kill at the moment.
What you however suggest is a return to the turkey shooting gallery that we had, and that was the other extreme - and not desireable as well.
Karst and I have submitted a large draft on transport balance.
Steps are being taken to fix large and small pewpew transports.
Removing bats/bots is not on that list, as it makes no sense.