+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes (/showthread.php?tid=12474)
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Tenacity - 09-26-2008
This argument came up in another thread, and I want to take a census on the matter.
Basically, the deal is that lawful players all over Sirius - everyone from LSF to Bretonian Police to Kusari Navy - are often "cutting off" running players by heading directly towards the player's destination. This most often occurs with smugglers running from scans, but happens almost as often for pirates who find themselves outnumbered by larger lawful forces.
Personally, I'm of the mind that these jump holes are designed as points of refuge for unlawful elements in Sirius. Nebulas, dark matter clouds, debris fields, asteroid fields, and the bases/jump holes inside them should not be known to lawful players in-RP, whether or not some player has lead them there before inadvertently. I believe that this is nothing more than powergaming on the lawful side in order to gain an advantage that you should not have in-RP.
Without having some sort of refuge in these areas, lawfuls completely dominate this server and mod. They have better ships than unlawfuls, higher numbers of players, and suddenly the only advantage the unlawfuls have - being able to hide or escape into a nebula or field where a hidden jump hole can take them out of the system - is gone.
Several scenarios here as examples:
1. A rogue player is pirating the trade lane between norfolk and west point. Due to a squealing trader, the rogeu suddenly finds himself being chased down by a fleet of liberty capships and fighters. He decides to make a run for the jump hole to texas, thinking that once he's in the cloud, the lawfuls' scanners will not be able to track him so he can get away.
Rather than playing along, not only do the lawful ships pursue the rogue into the badlands where they shouldnt be in the first place - but they call for other liberty lawful ships in the texas system, whether through group or private chat, to head to the new york jump hole and 'ambush' the rogue player as he jumpes through to the new system.
2. A smuggler is flying in leeds from the magellan jump hole to the dublin jump hole, carrying counterfeit software. Two BPA ships at planet leeds spot the smuggler at long range on scanners, and order him - from 10k+ distance - to stop for a cargo scan. Knowing that there's no way he can keep his cargo if he's scanned, the smuggler makes a run for the smog cloud ahead, where the dublin jump hole is hidden.
While one BPA pursues the smuggler at cruise speed - with no hope of catching up due to game mechanics (which is a fair point here) - the other BPA player takes the trade lane to the dublin jump hole, knowing that the smuggler is headed directly there.
Now the smuggler has one BPA chasing him from behind, and one at his destination who will easily jump through to dublin before the smuggler is able to. There's no way to escape train cruise disruptors at this point - and the smuggler has just found himself trapped because lawful players exploited knowledge of a jump hole that is supposed to be known only to unlawful elements in bretonia.
---
Now, I dont mind bounty hunters using these tactics - even though 90% of bounty hunters on this server are capwhores and are only interested in pvp. Further, bounty hunters shouldnt be policing unless a house-wide bounty for smugglers or pirates has been officially posted by lawful forces in that house. Regardless, most bounty hunters are ex-criminals, so they know the location of these jump holes and hidden areas/bases. This is inherent by the bounty hunter fighter patrols you often see directly outside of unlawful bases, in skirmishes with unlawful npcs there.
I just think it's pure powergaming by lawfuls to use these tactics when, in-rp, they should not even have a clue as to the location or existence of these jump holes, stations, etc. Further, I think it's quite oorp for any lawful to chase a running pirate/smuggler into high-hazard clouds, like volatile gas, minefields, dark matter, nebula, asteroid fields, etc. These areas are supposed to be hazardous enough that now self-loving lawful pilot or commander would ever risk entering them, yet most lawful players completely ignore this facet of RP as well.
EDIT:
To be fair here, this goes for unlawfuls as well. No unlawful ship, with the exception of lane hackers due to RP background, should ever be using jump gates, and should refrain from using trade lanes or going within a reasonable distance of a lawful station.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Zygoeths - 09-26-2008
Sadly, its TOTALLY outta roleplay if a fauction thats not even suppose to know about a jumpgate/hole goes to it and jumps.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - MB52 - 09-26-2008
Sure but how about we also discuss unlawfuls using jumpgates and tradelanes....
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Zygoeths - 09-26-2008
Well the thing is...... there unlawfuls, they can pretty much DO what ever they want....
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Orin - 09-26-2008
I voted that it is OORP.
Ageira scares Liberty that jump holes and such are dangerous and unstable, why the hell would they be using them like the unlawfuls?
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Vape - 09-26-2008
hmm not really, the lawfuls would eventually find the jumpholes by trailing unlawfuls.
so they wouldn't remain hidden for long.
also lawfuls in reality would pursue a criminal until either A they escape, B they leave the Territory, C, they are caught or D) they are killed
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Tenacity - 09-26-2008
' Wrote:Sure but how about we also discuss unlawfuls using jumpgates and tradelanes....
This is valid as well. Unlawfuls, unless they are supported by the local government or ruling force, should not be using jump gates. Trade lanes I think are ok, since travel takes so long here in some systems.
However, smugglers shouldnt be locked out of tradelanes or jump gates, Unless a lawful ship is present and scans the smuggler (i.e. tells the jump gate to lock down so the smuggler cant get through). In that situation, the smuggler would already be running anyways.
There are jump holes between every system in this mod, so it shouldnt be a problem for unlawfuls (meaning pirates/terrorists) to stay away from jump gates.
Quote:also lawfuls in reality would pursue a criminal until either A they escape, B they leave the Territory, C, they are caught or D) they are killed
If you were a cop, chasing a guy that was speeding away from you in a car, and suddenly that guy speeding away drives through a toxic waste landfill with radiation levels that could boil your insides - would you keep chasing him?
Lawfuls care about staying alive, as do unlawfuls. Unlawfuls generally modify their ships to better withstand radiation and environment hazards because they are -forced- into these inhospitable areas in order to survive and escape from lawful pursuance.
in most situations, any lawful pilot chasing an unlawful into, say, the badlands, should say "like hell i'm going in there" and break off. It would simply be too risky, catching a criminal is not worth your own life. Not only are there environmental hazards, but scanners dont work and you would have no idea how many unlawful ships were waiting to ambush you as you entered the area.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Zygoeths - 09-26-2008
Reread ur post vape or what ever ur name is. B leave territory...... exactly.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Vape - 09-26-2008
' Wrote:Reread ur post vape or what ever ur name is. B leave territory...... exactly.territory meaning house territory, IE their systems, now i can see that its OORp for a cap to go into the badlands and just stupid (the frakkin 'roids), but a navy would naturally patrol there anyway
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Zygoeths - 09-26-2008
Isn't there like... a giant base in the baddies?