Quote:

3.1 An attack is any hostile action that drains shields to less than 50%. Saying "Engaging" is not sufficient and aggressors are not allowed to destroy a ship before allowing sufficient time to respond. If a player is attacked he has the right to defend himself regardless of who is attacking. Trading nanobots, shieldbatteries or other ammo and equipment during a fight is also considered taking an active role in the engagement.

(01-21-2015, 05:50 PM)Sava Wrote: I have to admit that the accident with .:j:. transport took place LONG BEFORE this and this.
Also, we had not-too-short conversation before the kill, and the kill itself had a solid reason behind it (ask Hawk, he's in .:j:., I suppose).

You gave the player in question less than 30 seconds to reply. Thats not enough, considering that it includes the explosion sequencs of that transport as well.

How would I know that I'm breaking the rules?
The 3.1 rule was not interpreted that way before (if I'm wrong, provide me links to older sanctions with similar background, please).
When policy changes, you have to notify/warn people about it first, not pull sanctions in their face, no?
I'd say that I know that you were breaking rules by looking at the evidence you have and the server logs, no you will not get those.
There is no change in policy as this is a simple case of 'Not enough time after a demand'.

Don't make me feel like a victim of someone's bias.
And, finally, move my ships out of Bastille.
You so far have not given us a reason to do so, actually quite the opposite.

(01-21-2015, 05:58 PM)Jansen Wrote: no you will not get those.

(01-21-2015, 05:58 PM)Jansen Wrote: You so far have not given us a reason to do so, actually quite the opposite.

Quote:HMS-Daring: Hello, Garret.
HMS-Daring: Why half my caps are in Bastille?
HMS-Daring: Just noticed.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: don't know. What is your forum name?
HMS-Daring: I'm Sava.
HMS-Daring: Afaik, oorp engagement isn't the reason for bastilling expensive chars
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: Well, despite the fact that you disagree, you have repeatedly not given sufficient time for players to respond to your RP
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: Several different players have complained about this from you
HMS-Daring: Alright, at least now you talk on the matter
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: I said the same thing in the thread. You didn't listen
HMS-Daring: I agree that I can make people upset from time to time
HMS-Daring: But I usually control myself and abid the rules
HMS-Daring: I agree to change the attitude
HMS-Daring: BUT
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: I think Tunicle said that the Bastilling was just to get your attention.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: maybe once your tempban is up, you can request removal
HMS-Daring: Can you please sanction people for actually breaking particular rules, not for making admins' friends upset?
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: you have to be clearer. I don't know to what you are refering.
HMS-Daring: I stated it in my appeals.
HMS-Daring: In each case my opponets had way more time
HMS-Daring: than necessary
HMS-Daring: to avoid being shot
HMS-Daring: or to reply
HMS-Daring: (given they really wanted to)
HMS-Daring: In case with D9|
HMS-Daring: few minutes have passed between my arrival
HMS-Daring: and pvp
HMS-Daring: Yeah, I did instakill one of them
HMS-Daring: But since when is that illegal?
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: One incident I recall there was 12 seconds between your engagment notice and the players death.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: that's a bit too efficient
HMS-Daring: If one reads the rules
HMS-Daring: he doesn't find "engagement notice" word combination
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: I think you are splitting hairs
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: You know what role play is
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: you know what is expected
HMS-Daring: I really know. I play here for 4 years at least.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: all I ask is to give players a chance to respond to your RP before you blast them
HMS-Daring: From my perspective, since very recent time admins started to insist on giving pvp opponents time not just to react on
HMS-Daring: agression
HMS-Daring: but to argue and whine about it
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: give them an opportunity to drop a line. After there first line, see if there is an opportunity to RP. If not, blast them
HMS-Daring: I didn't notice such rules application for all my time here
HMS-Daring: So that I assume, you changed your policy without notifying the community
HMS-Daring: and changing the actual rule
HMS-Daring: and I fell victim to that mistake of yours
HMS-Daring: that's why I am disappointed
HMS-Daring: Alright, but can it be clarified somewhere after the rule?
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: Have to go. Daughter is having emergency
HMS-Daring: ciao.

(01-21-2015, 06:11 PM)Sava Wrote:

(01-21-2015, 05:58 PM)Jansen Wrote: no you will not get those.

I think there are none.

You are free to believe what you may deem to be correct.

(01-21-2015, 05:58 PM)Jansen Wrote: You so far have not given us a reason to do so, actually quite the opposite.

I try to abide the server rules since I first read them.
If you didn't bother to provide me with the new admins' interpretation, it's not my fault.
Now that I am aware of it, what the hell else do you need?

See above, there is no new interpretation of this rule.

Edit:

Quote:HMS-Daring: Hello, Garret.
HMS-Daring: Why half my caps are in Bastille?
HMS-Daring: Just noticed.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: don't know. What is your forum name?
HMS-Daring: I'm Sava.
HMS-Daring: Afaik, oorp engagement isn't the reason for bastilling expensive chars
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: Well, despite the fact that you disagree, you have repeatedly not given sufficient time for players to respond to your RP
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: Several different players have complained about this from you
HMS-Daring: Alright, at least now you talk on the matter
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: I said the same thing in the thread. You didn't listen
HMS-Daring: I agree that I can make people upset from time to time
HMS-Daring: But I usually control myself and abid the rules
HMS-Daring: I agree to change the attitude
HMS-Daring: BUT
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: I think Tunicle said that the Bastilling was just to get your attention.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: maybe once your tempban is up, you can request removal
HMS-Daring: Can you please sanction people for actually breaking particular rules, not for making admins' friends upset?
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: you have to be clearer. I don't know to what you are refering.
HMS-Daring: I stated it in my appeals.
HMS-Daring: In each case my opponets had way more time
HMS-Daring: than necessary
HMS-Daring: to avoid being shot
HMS-Daring: or to reply
HMS-Daring: (given they really wanted to)
HMS-Daring: In case with D9|
HMS-Daring: few minutes have passed between my arrival
HMS-Daring: and pvp
HMS-Daring: Yeah, I did instakill one of them
HMS-Daring: But since when is that illegal?
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: One incident I recall there was 12 seconds between your engagment notice and the players death.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: that's a bit too efficient
HMS-Daring: If one reads the rules
HMS-Daring: he doesn't find "engagement notice" word combination
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: I think you are splitting hairs
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: You know what role play is
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: you know what is expected
HMS-Daring: I really know. I play here for 4 years at least.
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: all I ask is to give players a chance to respond to your RP before you blast them
HMS-Daring: From my perspective, since very recent time admins started to insist on giving pvp opponents time not just to react on
HMS-Daring: agression
HMS-Daring: but to argue and whine about it
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: give them an opportunity to drop a line. After there first line, see if there is an opportunity to RP. If not, blast them
HMS-Daring: I didn't notice such rules application for all my time here
HMS-Daring: So that I assume, you changed your policy without notifying the community
HMS-Daring: and changing the actual rule
HMS-Daring: and I fell victim to that mistake of yours
HMS-Daring: that's why I am disappointed
HMS-Daring: Alright, but can it be clarified somewhere after the rule?
[Admin]Garrett_Jax: Have to go. Daughter is having emergency
HMS-Daring: ciao.

Yeah, Garret took the time to talk to you, what exactly do you try to tell me with this?

(01-21-2015, 07:26 PM)Sava Wrote: I don't "believe" that I am correct.
I AM correct, and your repeated failure to refute my arguments just proves it.

Ok

There were several threads (admins participated in them) in the past with discussion whether there is a need of making the so-called "engagement notice". Their outcome was clear: no. The verbal communication is required, not "notices". But you now use that term to justify persecutions against me.

There is no need for an Engagement notice, never was. There is a need for RP and for sufficient time for the other person, this is the point you ignore.

Regarding the "our policy didn't change":
For instance, the glorious Reavers (back when they were active) used to make surprise attacks. While one was talking with the victim, the other one would have his screamer already dropped and SNAC ball already fired. Of course, that caused bad blood. Of course, there were reports. But what would be the answer? "Got killed? Take a break and chill."
What do you say on that?

I wasnt an Admin back then, also see above.

If your policy didn't change since then, you must be just biased.

Definitely.

Edit: I was playing with more or less the same approach for years. And everything was alright. No warnings or sanctions for "insufficient time".
Until I shot an OSI. Oh, that Zoner tears...

You were just lucky that you didnt get reported, another player also told me of a similar incident involving you, which he didnt report. Im not sure if you count on other players being too lazy to report you, or if you really were just this lucky until now.

Quote:There is no need for an Engagement notice, never was. There is a need for RP and for sufficient time for the other person, this is the point you ignore.

Quote:I wasnt an Admin back then, also see above.

Quote:There is no change in policy as this is a simple case of 'Not enough time after a demand'.

Quote:You were just lucky that you didnt get reported, another player also told me of a similar incident involving you, which he didnt report. Im not sure if you count on other players being too lazy to report you, or if you really were just this lucky until now.