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+--- Thread: About an ID abuse (/showthread.php?tid=125401)
About an ID abuse - Tutashkhia - 01-29-2015
I'll just explain you the situation, which has happened to me (and not only to me) some times already after the "Pirate ID - Change", and let's discuss whether it's an ID abuse from the opponents' side or not. Or if it's not, what the hell it is then.
Situation #1: Some days ago, maybe three or four or even five days ago, I logged in Rheinland and as usually went to one of the Jump Gates. Spent there some time, pirated one or two transports until the lonely Military VHF appeared. Well, it wasn't hard to imagine what would happen... so I just tried to change my location and tried to just avoid him. The VHF destroyed the lane and disrupted me some times too. I just stopped 'cause there was no point trying to cruise away and continued the bla-bla RP. (un)fortunately for me I could see the logging players and could realize how many RNC players logged. Some minutes later I got surrounded by them and instantly got attacked after some RP lines.
Same happened when one RM Gunboat came to me and didn't attack me until he got sure he had enough forces on his side to take me down.
Situation #2: Liberty. The land of many weird stuff, such as an Imperator flying in the center of Liberty and many other weird things. Some days ago, I was flying there with some Outcast/Hacker/Pirate IDed players when we all got surrounded by the real army of Navies. Guess what happened? They first dealt with Outcast and Hacker IDed dudes and then targeted us. Of course, every smart player would do so if he knows Pirate IDed players are useless in such situations. Some of you might ask me why I didn't cruise away. The answer is as simply as 2 + 2 = 4... There had always been an extra navie snub CDing me(and one or two more pirates) and what's more, leaving guys in such situation wouldn't really be nice from me.
This happens quite often.
Well, let's start with these two situations which has happened to me quite some times after the ID change.
I'm interesting if not this, what else could also be considered as an ID abuse? Those two situations simply shows us the opponents abusing MY (Pirate) ID.
Edit: Claiming that this is just a way of tactic from their side would be kinda stupid I'd say. And if not, what do you call the ID abuse then?
RE: About an ID abuse - Mímir - 01-29-2015
I'd say it's abuse, but apparently this is how the powers that be want the Pirate ID.
They might as well remove the ID from the game.
RE: About an ID abuse - Jack_Henderson - 01-29-2015
Happened to me, too.
It's kind of silly to just see the gankforce gather and you cannot do anything. They give you the silent treatment until they are sure to wipe you out fast. Makes no sense and these players are hiding behind the ID restriction, ready to report you if you take an aggressive step. If you cannot find a trader to pirate right in their faces, you will get destroyed once they have their fleet ready. Pretty silly situation that is created by the ID.
I udnerstand pirate ID should not move around, taxing Liberty Cruisers for 5 million. But the consequences the resitriction had is kind of weird also.
RE: About an ID abuse - Highland Laddie - 01-29-2015
What specifically is being abused? And which ID is doing the abusing that you are referencing here? I'm not quite getting it.
If you're talking about getting ganked....I'd say that's pretty normal, everyday abuse from every ID.
RE: About an ID abuse - Mímir - 01-29-2015
Laddie, he is talking about being on a Pirate ID, having some lawful who is not in a transport roll up to you that you can do nothing about (due to recent ID changes), getting in your hair and bringing down the gank on you, when you can do nothing at all until the moment they open fire - and with the way the community is, they are more than likely to wait with the shooting until they are so many players that there's no chance of losing.
He's talking about being in group fights, where Pirate ID'd players are targeted last, as they can only return fire and not instigate an attack. I.e. they have to sit and watch when their non-pirate ID'd wingmen die, as Pirate ID'd players can do nothing at all.
It was a silly "fix", it solves no problems and just creates more.
RE: About an ID abuse - Tutashkhia - 01-29-2015
(01-29-2015, 08:54 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: What specifically is being abused? And which ID is doing the abusing that you are referencing here? I'm not quite getting it.
If you're talking about getting ganked....I'd say that's pretty normal, everyday abuse from every ID.
In the situation one, RM ID abuses my Pirate ID.
In the situation two, LN ID abuses my Pirate ID.
Do you get it now?
RE: About an ID abuse - Deeceem - 01-29-2015
The interesting part is that you and your fellas brought that pretty much on yourself (and everyone else who uses the Pirate ID) by pretty much abusing how the Pirate ID was before. I don't think I have to go in detail as everyone who frequents the forum regularly is probably aware of all the stuff which happened in the past involving you and your group, which argueably was a major reason for the ID change.
However does that make it right to now have those very players who complained about you and your group abusing the Pirate ID acting the exact same way now and absuing ID wordings? I don't think so.
So yeah, I agree it's a combination of abusing ID wording, ingame mechanics and server rules (cruise disruptors not being an attack, which usually makes sense) and has nothing to do with fair play, tactic or anything else which those parties should be even remotely proud of and maybe the Admins can think of a way to solve that problem to at least give the Pirate ID a way to defend themselves if being perma CD'd while trying to run.
On the flip-side one could argue, that any ID which hasn't any active engagement allowances such as the Zoner ID faces the same problem, but apparently they don't or they don't care enough to make a post on the forums. (inb4 some especially cool kidz log now and start to perma CD Zoner vessels...).
"Karma is a b***h", I suppose. Sadly it doesn't only affect those, who argueably "deserve" it, but also those who tried to play responsible with the Pirate ID before it got changed instead of trying to turn it into a sad excuse of a Terrorist ID by exploiting it. We'll see what the Admins say and do, if anything.
RE: About an ID abuse - Mímir - 01-29-2015
^What are you on about?
The Pirate ID was used, then public forum consensus was that that use was abuse, and staff in all their wisdom went 'ok' and messed up the ID.
I'd wager most of those people claiming the way the Pirate ID was used was abuse would say so about any player with an unlawful ID that killed them.
RE: About an ID abuse - Deeceem - 01-29-2015
(01-29-2015, 09:20 PM)Mímir Wrote: ^What are you on about?
The Pirate ID was used, then public forum consensus was that that use was abuse, and staff in all their wisdom went 'ok' and messed up the ID.
(01-29-2015, 09:15 PM)Deeceem Wrote: ...instead of trying to turn it into a sad excuse of a Terrorist ID by exploiting it...
(01-29-2015, 09:20 PM)Mímir Wrote: I'd wager most of those people claiming the way the Pirate ID was used was abuse would say so about any player with an unlawful ID that killed them.
Isn't really relevant to the topic. In case though you are implying -I- am one of those players, I can comfort you and tell you that I almost exclusively played Pirate ID'd vessels for about the past six months.
Other than that I voted on "Yes" despite my dislike for how some people used the Pirate ID in the past and said everything I have to say on that topic for now.
RE: About an ID abuse - Arioch - 01-29-2015
First off, if the RP goes like this "Oh look, pirates! Time to die!", then the engagement is directed at everyone in the group, which means you can then attack (As that is ground for self defense). If the RP goes "Oh look, Rogues - Time to die", then yeah, you aren't being engaged. If the LN or RM then attack you without actually giving you an engagement message, then thats a no-no, since they didn't give you an engagement message/RP.
Second, the line says "Can defend same affiliated ships". Meaning, if you are a Rogue IFF'd, Pirate ID'd player, you can defend Rogues being attacked. Have RH IFF? Then you can defend RH ships in Rheinland. You want to be everywhere, and be able to attack everyone? Then see how the RP plays out and judge it based on that.
Make sense?