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+--- Thread: House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy (/showthread.php?tid=12827)
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House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - Bjorn - 10-06-2008
This is rant, please dont bother if you do not intend to read whole post and understand it as question and attempt at discussion for greater good, rather than flame or insult to someones ego or personality.
Also please note that this mod is still work of Igiss and he retains all rights to change things in game as he sees fit, admins and him are final judges to anything comunity or individuals decide related to mod, factions reputation sheets and political stances.
Ok, I am not sure for Kusari and Liberty, but I know that there are players that impersonate Queen and Gottkanzler.
Also there are quite few player factions that represent game factions as whole.
Given to influx of wierd political decisions, I start to see some problems with this. While it is most commendable that someone tries to roleplay those postitions, and that being rather tricky and hard work. After trying it out myself I see it is not a position anyone can play or take.
Now real problem comes here:
All political decisions made are not actually functional. As you might write treaties and decrees all over forums, but most players will not be aware of that(even if you try your best at educating them, they will observe NPC behaviour an reputation sheets and act to it). Also some decisions might tip balance in game to wrong paths. Also if such person ever leaves, retire or gives up on position, new one replacing him/her would show (this is fact) different approach. While this is not such a problem with faction leaders(where you can change "character" in charge) you cannot change ruler because player gave up.
Also there is rather wierd mess of factions and their politics that took wrong turn somewhere.
Here are some decisions that were done wrong, need reworking, explanation or common sense:
Treaty of Dublin was signed too easy, and nothing was gained, what was lost was a faction.(balance issue)
Outcast neutrality to Bretonia while ally of Mollys(politics issue)
Outcast alliance to Red hessians and rest of Rheinlanders, while being frends with nomads, is also rather questionable, and even more since Rheinland is perhaps house that lost most to nomads, including its leader.(unexplained reasoning)
Gaians siding with Corsairs is rather wierd turn of events.(unexplained reasoning)
Also is Corsairs siding with Farmers alliance, while not siding with Samura, and Samura being source of Farmers funding.(mixed politics)
Bretonia supporting 522 while being ally to Linerty and enemy to Hackers and Harvesters.(politics and balance issue)
Dragons siding with Outcasts while hating cardamine, and not liking outsiders.(unexplained reasoning)
Now for instance, if player of leader character deicdes he wants something changed, that remians hanging in air. Now there is question, do characters need nerfing or, they should simply stick to grand plan that was engineered for this mod(since, there are indicators of one).
Because, as much as there are things some of us would like to be changed, that course could go rampart really soon.
I want opinions and input on this. If this becomes flame war, or indie/faction bash, I would like to ask Admin team to lock it. If you only want to prove your point and disregard others opinions, please refrain from posting. Thank you
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - bluntpencil2001 - 10-06-2008
Treaty of Dublin was signed too easy, and nothing was gained, what was lost was a faction.(balance issue)
Outcast neutrality to Bretonia while ally of Mollys(politics issue)
Failed attempt at mirroring real-life events, by players ignorant of Irish politics.
Outcast alliance to Red hessians and rest of Rheinlanders, while being frends with nomads, is also rather questionable, and even more since Rheinland is perhaps house that lost most to nomads, including its leader.(unexplained reasoning)
Alliance with Hessians makes sense, due to both having territorial disputes with Corsairs. If the USA and USSR could ally in WW2, this is okay. Outcasts and Nomads getting on okay due to one rumour, however, is wrong. There is enough in-game evidence to make this very debatable, especially considering that knowledge of the Nomads has increased via science in recent years. Seeing them as guardian spirits seems rather anachronistic. Seeing them as friendly entities seems almost insane at times.
Gaians siding with Corsairs is rather wierd turn of events.(unexplained reasoning)
This should be dealt with next version.
Also is Corsairs siding with Farmers alliance, while not siding with Samura, and Samura being source of Farmers funding.(mixed politics)
Farmer's Alliance makes sense, due to Hogosha connections and a Corsair need for food makes sense. Samura don't want to be seen to be aiding foreign powers, so seems okay, for the most part.
Bretonia supporting 522 while being ally to Liberty and enemy to Hackers and Harvesters.(politics and balance issue)
Lack of sense entirely.
Dragons siding with Outcasts while hating cardamine, and not liking outsiders.(unexplained reasoning)
True to a point, yes. They don't so much as hate Cardamine as look down on it, but still, same deal. They'd be allied with the GC, yes, who are allied to Outcasts, but wouldn't have any direct contact with the Outcasts themselves.
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I think you have a point about players roleplaying heads of state, though, since, theoretically, the player RPing the Queen of Bretonia could declare war on the BMM for not giving her a nice enough birthday card, for instance.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - Dieter Schprokets - 10-06-2008
Bretonia supporting 522 while being ally to Liberty and enemy to Hackers and Harvesters.(politics and balance issue)
Don't think we do support them. Last I knew, we tended to regard them as hostile.
And the bizarre love/hate triangle of the Mollys/BAF/Outcasts is a bit odd.
Likely Mollies should be more neutral to OC.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - Jura_II - 10-06-2008
Quote:Outcast alliance to Red hessians and rest of Rheinlanders, while being friends with nomads, is also rather questionable, and even more since Rheinland is perhaps house that lost most to nomads, including its leader.
Let's repeat this one more time, maybe someone will read it. Outcasts are not allied with nomads, outcasts are not even friendly with nomads. There is a weak neutrality going on, and a don't shoot if you can avoid them.
There is also the ban on nomad technology, and the no nomads within 10 K from our bases and Malta.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - bluntpencil2001 - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:Let's repeat this one more time, maybe someone will read it. Outcasts are not allied with nomads, outcasts are not even friendly with nomads. There is a weak neutrality going on, and a don't shoot if you can avoid them.
There is also the ban on nomad technology, and the no nomads within 10 K from our bases and Malta.
Screenshots by Laowai say differently.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - pchwang - 10-06-2008
Mate, one instance of RP doesn't dictate the RP of an entire faction all the time...
I'd use better evidence than that. Is there a RP going on that indicates that the Outcasts are allied with the Nomads?
The forums are where all canon RP is taken down. If it's not here, it might as well not exist.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - bluntpencil2001 - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:Mate, one instance of RP doesn't dictate the RP of an entire faction all the time...
I'd use better evidence than that. Is there a RP going on that indicates that the Outcasts are allied with the Nomads?
The forums are where all canon RP is taken down. If it's not here, it might as well not exist.
There are multiple instances of Outcast worship. I've seen it myself, other players have multiple screens, of both actions by independents and respected factions.
Also, player RP is NOT canon. What Igiss says is canon.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - farmerman - 10-06-2008
I thought the Gaian/Corsair thing was related to a couple things. The main being mutual foes (Mollys, Bretonia, Outcasts). It also gives the Corsairs another staging area around Bretonia. Lastly, didn't I read in the future the Gaians are going to be interested in artifacts?
Though I agree with the Outcast/Bretonia thing and the Treaty of Dublin one, though I could rationalize the latter. I imagine the Samura thing is because the Farmer's Alliance is not particularly public.
I was thinking the same thing about those acting as leaders. It's nice that the Queen, for instance, is around, but I think it would make more sense to act as the Prime Minister, for example.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - Xoria - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:Also, player RP is NOT canon. What Igiss says is canon.This should mysteriously appear in the signature of every forum account, and be the first line in the emailed welcome message for joining the forum.
House leader and factions leader players, also wierd diplomacy - Tenacity - 10-06-2008
It seems like you're bringing up the order-liberty treaty again here...
Let me remind everyone that the cease-fire agreement between the order and liberty was merely a negotiation of areas of operation. It was intended that no order players would enter liberty systems, while no liberty players would enter order systems - the end effect of which would be no more incidents/combat between the two factions for a short period of time while we dealt with larger threats at hand. There was never an alliance or nuetrality of any sort with the exception of liberty allowing Tenabras into their space to help with nomad problems (and that was messed up by the admins, even).
Everyone took that 'treaty' way out of proportion, saying that factions were trying to force players to play their way... when they werent. Any players who violated the terms were simply forced to deal with any hostilities against them on their own.
Ever since the admins turned down the 'treaty', we've had entire fleets of osiris battleships invading new york daily. See what happens when you interfere, admins? You turn down our agreement, and suddenly there's even more OORP behavior to put up with.