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+--- Thread: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change (/showthread.php?tid=134420)
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Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - Binski - 12-31-2015
Well we've had Cloak Disruptors for a while now, I see they're winding up on the market and aren't too unreasonably priced.
To boot, I've seen one used quite well myself and think they work fine in conjunction with the new cloak sounds.
So now its time to make people really invest. Of course I'll get all sorts of accusations of bias. I must fully admit though, I'm tired of regular CD's ending the cloak charge sequence on any cloak. Just hear me out:
Now that we have Cloak Disruptors, the danger on a cloakable vessel is double. The other problem is, no one really feels they need a Cloak CD yet because regular CD's still work on cloaks, and most of the time you encounter someone with a cloak, and they are visible, you don't need to worry that much. Snub cloaks have the best chance yes, but all the others are guaranteed useless if you're within range of a faster ship with a simple CD. We cloakers again give up our regular CM so we wind up triple screwed if someone with a cloak CD is around, and regular CD. And so what's the counter argument? I should just use my cloak before I enter an encounter... and to even get use out it, use it in advance instead of taking the risk?
So, should anyone still be able to trump all cloaks? When the tech used against them is now getting stacked, I feel like the value of catching a cloaking ship should be going up too. Cloaks cost how much? and require how much in resources to build? And yet still anyone with a simple train CD can eliminate the cloak on any non snub craft with great ease.
My argument? Aside from the snub cloaks, cloaks have long charge times. Its at least 30s before you actually go invisible and become un selectable, on the Mk2, longer of course for the others. I'm starting to really feel that players should not be able to interrupt cloaks with long charge times. I mean, wasn't the point of lowering the shields and giving charge time, to make it risky to the cloaker to try to cloak and escape? During that time you're highly exposed. I'd like to see a world where the pursuer simply tries to destroy the ship before it gets cloaked, rather than continue CD spam and relax, 'cuz this fool bought a cloak and paid hundreds of millions for their own death' when really, it should be usable to escape if you can survive the charge time.
I've dealt with it for as long as I've been here and for a while it seemed fair. Not any more. No one will buy or bother using these cloak disruptors until the have no choice. If a person wants to be able to take down a cloaker, they should need access to a cloak disruptor. It turns it into a balanced money sink vs money sink, which is far more fair to me. As it stands, the odds are too stacked against cloakers, and those of you who feel cloaks are bad for activity...consider: People stay cloaked in certain situations because they know once they're exposed, they're stuck that way. If people felt the cloak would work how they dreamed/envisioned, to help them get out of bad situations when they need it, they might be a little more willing to show themselves, RP, and fight, with confidence they can make a reasonable escape attempt, in a form they worked hard for and heavily invested in.
Long story short, people already can't catch snub cloaks with CD's usually, the rest of us suffer when now there are even more advantages to be sought to beat cloaks. The cloak should work, if I'm willing to take the risk and lower my shield in battle, that's the counterbalance. CD's will work to keep you from cruising, and that's fine, it keeps you in the battle until you could get cloaked. All I know is, no one's going to rush out for Cloak Disruptors (now that they're becoming availble) because the old CD's work just fine in 99% of circumstances. I think if that were to change, so would the market, and so would the value of engaging a cloaker, or as a cloaker. Besides, aren't there ships with more than one CD slot? So they could mount both regular and anti-cloak (is this correct??), have decent chances of forcing them to be visible and knock them out of cruise... Well that seems fair if ships without the anti-cloak can only stop cruise...not charging or a ship already cloaked.
Now again you shout bias but come on, its not that I think cloaks should be unbeatable, I just think it should no longer be so easy every regular player. Any entry level player can beat one, or anyone only willing to sink a few mil into a fighter. There are cloaks, and now there are cloak CD's. One investment (cloak) beats the regular (CM's), the counter 'sink' investment beats the first one. Everyone money sinks for armors and caps, cloaks and JDs, because you need to in order to get those effects. Right now, the cloak CD is not 'needed' by most and so will not be used as much. People spending minimal should not trump those spending high, in time or credits. If you want to trump a cloak, you should now have to basically spend about the same as he who spent on the cloak. I haven't fell victim to a Cloak CD yet, and my bet is I won't anytime soon if things stay the same. Should there be a change to regular CD's, I believe the number of Cloak CD's floating around will start to go up. Instead of being irritated that players with much easier to achieve set ups killing my cloak... when it does happen, I'll be impressed! Having my cloak fail is not bad as long as not any average joe can do it anymore. I'd like an assurance factor that they'll have to put more time and effort into it as opposed to using a CD that costs less than a mil. Time to make them fork out some cash like the rest of us! Fighters are cheap! Cloaks and high RP investments are not.
Economically I would also expect perhaps even a rise in the value of cloaks, and their CD's. The possibility is that if value on cloaks go up, less cloaks wind up circulating, less loss to cloaks, but again, more of a fair system of beating a cloak when it does happen...and cloaks become less of an 'avoiding you altogether' tool and more of a paid escape (pending you survive the charge); one that can be countered with the right tech of about equal cost, for those determined to win that kind of battle. If MkII's were 600 mil instead of 300, because then people would REALLY want them and then also others would really need the CD to counter. So my question to those who would just DIE if they couldn't CD transport cloaks...whats so wrong with needing to work on it like we do with everything else? Could you have to change some things, like ship, to guarantee catching a cloaker? Sure, but that's what makes sense to me. Either take your chances or recognize the need to specialize!
Thanks and cheers.
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - Antonio - 12-31-2015
Cloak disruptors got a huge buff recently. If you're using a Mk2 or Mk3 version, all you gotta do is press a button when you hear a cloaking sound, and it's guaranteed to work. The range of disruption (6k or 9k) is greater than the range you pick up the sound on (5k), so it's impossible to get away. Even with Mk1 (3k) it's not that hard, because if you hear the cloaking sound it means you're running into it, and you'll soon cover the 2k distance, after which you can activate the disruptor.
Their popularity is increasing, but they're not frequent enough to remove Cruise disruptors' ability to stop cloak charge. Even though I agree that the idea is alright, now's not the time. Once cloak disruptors start getting used often, and I mean really often, then it would be alright to change it. For now, I'd say let this buff sink in and get people to buy Cloak disruptors. Cloaks always had and will always have a lot more versatility than cloak disruptors. The only purpose of cloak disruptors is to stop cloaks, while cloaks can be used for multiple things, not just PvP.
P.S. You could've written that in 2-3 paragraphs. No need for a wall of text.
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - realekki - 12-31-2015
@TheUnforgiven full ACK +1
let cruise disruptors disrupt the cruise, they should have no effects on cloaks
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - Dawson Base - 12-31-2015
Implementing a CD-Slotted dedicated cloak disruptor that, as current CDs, stops cloaking warmup time but does NOT disrupt cruise or projectiles could be a way to ease into this change. Especially if it is the same cost as a regular CD.
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - Thunderer - 12-31-2015
Cruise disruptors currently can't disrupt any cloaking device. Tried and tested in lack of a cloak disruptor.
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - sasapinjic - 12-31-2015
I agree , CD should be nerfed to not cancel cloak charge with cloak disruptor around , or at least , let it be only one CD type that can cancel cloak charge , one that isn't efficient to CD engines , like wasp , that way people will have to chose CD cloak or CD engines setup .
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - Nexodius - 12-31-2015
@TheUnforgiven
Thumbs Up
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - Connor - 12-31-2015
(12-31-2015, 11:51 AM)Thunderer Wrote: Cruise disruptors currently can't disrupt any cloaking device. Tried and tested in lack of a cloak disruptor.
Thunderer, cruise disrupters stop the initial charge of the cloak. Once the animation starts on the cloak, cruise disrupters then become useless and stop working since they can't decloak people.
Also giving some of the other wasted CDs new functions like cloak disrupter cds for the initial charge is a great idea.
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - Thunderer - 12-31-2015
I tried to stop a battleship from cloaking with a train cruise disruptor countless times, and it has never worked. I think battleships with cloaking devices can't mount CMs.
RE: Cloak Disruptor VS Cruise Disruptor: About time for that change - nOmnomnOm - 12-31-2015
Also the fact that there is still the bug that if you cloak you can still be CDed or missiled.
I mean... If charging into a jump is game abuse then this should be as well.