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+--- Thread: Dismay (/showthread.php?tid=140728)
Dismay - Vendetta - 06-30-2016
You know what the saddest part of this is in my opinion?
How hurt people have gotten over these actions. How willing they are to jump on the bandwagon and walk out. Six people - not sixty - were banned. At what point did anyone decide to make the assumption that it's over? You're all so eager to jump off the boat and let it sink further. Did any of you - you know who you are - stop to think that your approach was lacking any form of candor? Doesn't look like it. You're all lighting fires over nothing, really. The few going out of their way to harm others and this community are doing so as a result of their friends being banned. Is this really what we've become?
I for one love this community. Even I know when a bad call has been made, but I'm not going to jump at the staff and attack them over one or two disagreements. I know that it goes no where. You should all know better than that. This is the exact approach that caused the staff to take these actions. It's not as unwarranted as you might think. You're calling for transparency in this situation - I can perfectly understand the need for this. You don't know enough about the why, but only of the who. While it may be spontaneous and abrupt, I know it was discussed carefully, and not everyone is immune to being human and making mistakes. I don't deny that there is some hint of human error written all over this, but attacking them is not the way to get results.
Lyth - You are one of the few people who, over time since I returned around the time you joined, had slowly lost their will and motivation - I can see deserving of this action. The constant bickering, the whining, the memes, your approach to the staff, had rapidly become negative in the latter years of your time here. While I can appreciate the work and effort you put into the mod and community, a lot of the ways you did such were wrong. Playing backroom politics is something I know how to do very well, and it seems you were quite well versed in it. As of late, your actions had become extreme and unwelcome. The staff aren't here to pander to your every wish and desire.
Impy - I never really knew enough about you on a personal level. I hardly ever spoke to you. There are a lot of things circling around about you that would regularly point someone to a negative opinion. Are they justified? Rumors aren't always true, but they often exist for a reason. I can't say I didn't appreciate some of the effort you put into the community, nor that I appreciated it. I don't really know the extent of it, but if enough evidence and word from the silent minority put you here, then so be it.
Swifty - Carter, I've always seen you as a less than desirable person, so call bias if you want. Your bitter attitude developed years ago, and it seems to have only ever gotten worse over time. The action taken wasn't without merit or reason, and while I don't know enough about the details, I personally believe that this was a step in the right direction. Publicly, however, I know for a fact that the approach should've been different, and it's a little disappointing to me to see it be done like this, but it had to happen. It honestly should've been done sooner for different people.
Snoopy - I genuinely have no idea why you're on this list. Yeah, there's the usual 'lol bitter vet' argument, but I'm not going to throw that up without knowing a single thing beyond word of someone who lost my trust a long time ago. I won't discredit what's been done, but I won't jump to your defense. I've written this off as not knowing enough.
Meph - You honestly seemed like the person who enjoyed their time here, and while you had your good and bad moments, it seems the bad outweighed the good in the eyes of the community. While it may be seen as simple comic relief, others tend to take it more personally. This particular attitude from the receiving end isn't healthy either, but I can agree that neither was the approach. The extent of the punishment, however, seems a little too harsh in your case.
Karst - I definitely don't know the details of this one, just what I've heard, so discredit it all you want. Several people accused you of malicious behavior which is honestly surprising to me. I've known you to be one of the healthier members of the community who contributed a lot and helped many people. You were active and vocal. While it might seem like it's an attempt by the admins to quell the vocal minority, I doubt this is the case. No one is exempt from bias, and the admins are aware of this. If this is something personal, it needs to be brought to the light, and I'd honestly want to see you unbanned as soon as possible.
The above address each of the banned individuals from my perspective as a community member for the last six years. Some of them are rather fresh faces, and others have been here quite a long time. No one is able to avoid developing opinions. That's the joys of being human and becoming involved in a small community. You're going to meet people you don't like. You're going to see things you don't agree with. This isn't an excuse to get huffy and puffy and attack people at every turn. This is a place people come to relax and enjoy themselves. I come here to write and enjoy an immersive universe that I've become invested in. I do this with friends who do the same. It's amazing how quickly people are willing to discredit activity and efforts because of this. To abandon all hope and jump out because the fear of the unknown is overpowering rational thought.
I'm not going to wave my hand in front of your faces and say 'Everything is under control. Everything is fine.' because it'd be a blatant lie. Nothing, right now, says that this situation is okay. The reaction from the community based on actions from the staff are overwhelming. The approach by the community is appalling to say the least. There's human beings on the other end of that screen who can just as easily become as upset as you. Consider this when you prime your SJW fingertips for action about your injustices. Approaching with anger and insults is prompting the stonewall response that many of the vocal people here are getting. Your method isn't working. Re-evaluate.
As for the staff. I've gone ahead and approached some people on the team about this, offering my help. To no surprise, it wasn't exactly well received. You're all being cautious and careful to avoid losing the slowly slipping grasp you have on the community. I'm not one to jump to the rescue of people. I don't even like being knee deep in all the crap that goes on behind the scenes here, but if I have to to keep a few people from making bad choices, then so be it. While you might see the response and attempt to tell yourselves that 'you did the right thing', your actions have done more harm than good. I know you're all going to take a step back and rethink this. It won't happen immediately, but I know it will. You need to look past the angry words of the people shouting and kicking their feet to see the reasons behind it.
Taking things personally like this - and this goes for everyone - is more destructive than any ban could ever be. This is meant to be a fun place. You're all equally responsible for turning it into what it has become. The community's approach to everything - always entering a situation with negativity in mind and so eager to take a dump on the first sign of change that isn't to your own personal agenda. No, don't stand up, we all have one and there's no denying it anymore. Congratulations. You're human. So are the people you're harassing and threatening.
The staff - Ducking your heads into the sand, or laying back and taking the blows isn't helping yourself or the community. There are many valid points when it comes to the opinions that have developed of you. Yeah they're throwing you all under the bus at once, but stop and think about why they're doing it. There have been a lot of questionable choices made by the staff, and while some of us are content to sit by and see how things work, it isn't going to be the case anymore. There's a lot that has been done, and that still needs to be done, before this community is made a better place. I can agree that some of you might not be ideal for it, but I know that each one of you does their share of work, and you all do it in your own way.
Conrad/King Boo - You're one of the few admins I have - in the past - disliked due to belief of personal bias. As time went on, I've learnt it isn't the case, and that you have the best intentions for the community. Approaching the way you have been has been difficult and you obviously - like the rest of the staff - get so much flak for just trying to do your job. Don't let the flak dissuade and demotivate your approach, but take the time to think over this situation like you've decided to.
Drrobe/Arioch - You're one of the few people on the staff I came to know on a first name basis and spoke to as often as possible. You're a good person and you were - Like some before you - extremely hands on in the community, and I know that you took the worst of the punches for being on the front line. You always did your best to keep a level head and help out. The fact remains that you can't expect a herd of man-children to not behave like their namesake. People are horrible, especially in this place. I hope it hasn't cut off your motivation to still enjoy the game, but do yourself a favor and avoid the green title. It's taking a toll on you that isn't good for anyone.
Tunicle - I've rarely spoken to you, but I know you do a lot in the ways of server maintenance and general admin duties. While you're not as vocal as your counterparts, no one can deny that you're a contributing member of the team. You're not one to handle large situations like this, and I can understand any unwillingness you might have, but don't let it get to you.
Mark/St.Denis - You're one of the people who I've known since I came to this community. The shenanigans you, me and the others got up to in Kansas is always first and foremost in my mind when thinking about here. Being a friend and having a personal opinion would discredit anything I need to say, but I know you do much of the same work as Tunicle. I know you actually go in-game and work the floor. You're very hands on, and while you might not be as vocal, it doesn't mean you don't contribute. Again, however, like Tunicle, you've never really been one for large situations like this. Don't let it get you down.
Jensen - Again - Much like Conrad - I have a personal opinion of you in a more negative sense due to bad interactions with you as a staff member over the years. While you may contribute to discussions and efforts, you're one of the few people I would openly say doesn't really belong under the green title. It doesn't suit you, and while I may be biased, I know others who would agree that you're not a good fit for the admin team.
Alley - It's honestly a shame to see someone like you - someone so dedicated to this community with each return - become so demotivated and decide not to return. You were one of the few admins who willingly poured their time and effort in above and beyond the necessary. You cared enough to create many new, cool and interesting things, and you were present and active with such in-game. A lot of the interactions - minus the time you spawned a Marduk on us in Vespucci during a training session - have always been enjoyable and fun. I really hope you'll reconsider after a brief interlude, and return to the lighter side of the community.
Dimon - You're someone I never anticipated becoming an admin. I don't really have any negative or positive comments, and you're still a relatively new green. Personally, I think you try your best. You've got good intentions at heart. I'm not sure if your delivery for such intentions is as good, but you try. Trying, however, isn't exactly merit for one to make mistakes. No one is immune from making them, so do your best to keep on keeping on.
Hannibal - I have ~no idea who you are. I have never even seen you before until you became a moderator. You rapidly ascended to administrator for whatever reason, and already came under a monumental amount of flak. You're trying your best , and much like the above, you're not immune from making mistakes just because you're a green.
Pavel - Much like Mark, I've known you a long time. I can't really - nor have I ever really been able to - develop an opinion on you. You try to make being a member of the staff which is a hefty chore fun for yourself. I know you've not really been one for feedback, but I don't think you're a good fit for the staff.
Cashew - You've been gone too long. Look at what happened while you were away? YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO FIX THIS!!!!
In all seriousness, Cash', you were one of the few admins who just tried without complaining or taking things for granted. You did a lot of good work and it's a good thing to see you return. I may be biased because we're friends, but I know you act with the best intentions for the community in mind, and I'm glad to see you back.
No one is exempt from opinions. Bias will always remain. It's human nature. Changing the color of ones name doesn't ascend them above being what they are. You all should take this into consideration. The staff might not be perfect. Hell, they're far from it, but the community is a far cry from perfection. I'm not perfect, either. I've been insulted, called a manipulative piece of shit for just doing what I thought was right. I've been thrown under the bus for many a misconstrued situation over the years. I eventually stopped caring about all the drama around me. I went back to playing the game, and building up my stories, because they're fun, and people enjoy reading them. I too have personal opinions on many of the people here, but I'm not going to go join either side of the riot.
I've been trying to keep a few people from leaving because of these events, and the insults and flaming going on behind the scenes. No one is perfect. You're all equally responsible for the state of the community. That's why it's called a community. We're supposed to work together to make it better, but either side has had such different approaches, that they conflicted with eachother. Fights, arguments and bitterness broke out and ran rampant. This is the result of your efforts. I love this community, it's a place I enjoy, but god damn it if I dislike a large portion of the people here.
That's all I have to say. I slept on this, by the way.
Gonna go eat breakfast now.
EDIT: Whoops. Wrong place. Too early. x.x Please move this to general discussion.
RE: Dismay - Reeves - 06-30-2016
Enjoy your breakfast. And thank you for being constructive rather than what everyone else seems to be doing about this right now.
RE: Dismay - Euca - 06-30-2016
incoming transmission
wrong subforum protocols initiated....
....moving complete.
end transmission
RE: Dismay - Petitioner - 06-30-2016
Ven's a good guy who says what he means and means what he says. I'm really glad for this post.
RE: Dismay - Cælumaresh - 06-30-2016
I support every single statement made by Vendetta here.
I thought about the same thing, but i lacked the words to formulate it, it seems Vendetta did so in a great way.
Kudos Vendetta, seriously, kudos. You've earned them more then most.
RE: Dismay - Swallow - 06-30-2016
Just being nice to others solves everything.
RE: Dismay - sasapinjic - 06-30-2016
At last one post on this subject that is NOT bunch of whining but constructive and specific explanation . . .
RE: Dismay - Thunderer - 06-30-2016
Good points, but you could have said this with less text. Many people are going to miss something worth reading (but not this much reading!)
RE: Dismay - Sombs - 06-30-2016
Now that all the damage has been done, let's just hope people calm down very soon and rethink the decisions they made. While bans are bans, it's very sad to see how many people got flak'd by this shooting in all directions and how many people needed just this to make the decision of leaving. However, those who just want to set a sign by jumping the drama train may be gone forever. Ven wrote some good things here, and I hope this is the beginning of people starting being constructive again. Discovery won't die that easily, but we don't need people to fuel it just because of not having a sandwich.
Please, everyone that made the decision to leave or resign: Just take a sandwich, do a break of a week, but don't leave this community forever. Whatever happened and how well or not well justified actions taken were, don't see it as a final nail. People often tend to come back, and maybe it just needs a break to get some relief and clarity about what and what not to do within this community.
RE: Dismay - Thyrzul - 06-30-2016
[15:10:56] Thyr'zul - [C]: What concerns me the most are the mention of those "managed to dodge the bullet this time", the threat that they "may not dodge the next one" and the vague statement that "you know who you are". And besides that the repetition of how "negativity" is bad.
I wonder if it is relevant to me or not, i don't think it is, but I can't know for sure because i've been criticising decisions of the staff as well in the past, and while I tried my best to stay constructive I don't know if it'll help me, seeing how Karst got banned.
[15:11:18] Thyr'zul - [C]: And then what's next? A witch hunt? Eradication of downers?
[15:11:33] x: You are not related to that statement Thyr
[15:11:36 | Edited 15:11:52] x: You're a good guy
[15:11:43] Thyr'zul - [C]: You think so.
[15:11:47] Thyr'zul - [C]: I do think so too.
[15:11:50] Thyr'zul - [C]: Irrelevant.
[15:12:14] Thyr'zul - [C]: What matters is what they think and I don't know what they think because I'm not a mentalist and they don't tell what they think.
[15:12:22] Thyr'zul - [C]: All we receive are vague threats.
[15:12:32] Thyr'zul - [C]: And vague comments on how "negativity" is bad.
Feel free to send me to hell for continuing the drama, but if you think my concerns aren't constructive and valid, I dare you to explain reasonably how they aren't.
Oh, and sorry for the "negativity".
Oh, and sorry for the "negativity".