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+--- Thread: Questions about the recent patch (/showthread.php?tid=146917)
Questions about the recent patch - Sombs - 01-10-2017
Patchnotes
May I ask what the idea behind the removal of sidewinder and firestalker was?
And why the additional torpedo slot?
The way it looks currently, the patch has buffed snubs massively for the fight against bigger ships while the fight against other snubs got nerfed even more, which is contrary to what everyone and their mother was asking for, as shieldrunning, basehugging, dodge-as-long-as-you-can snub-fights are rather tiring than amusing. I mean, MAYBE the intention behind the removal of sidewinders and firestalkers was to force snubs to use the other missiles with their special traits, so we have more different loadouts. But then again that doesn't make much sense when you suddenly don't need bombers anymore as you can just give your snub a torpedo.
It gives the impression as if one of the greatest aspects of the game, the ability to fly ships that are not snubs, is currently being nerfed. Like, it shouldn't be snubs that deal massive damage. It should be bombers that deal massive damage to big ships or are good at aiming using the snac - something only proficient people are able to pull off, as even I can dodge snacs effectively with my Adad.
Like, what is more annoying than a squad of snubs piling on a battleship that can't hit even one of the snubs while using Solarises and Zoomout? Right, snubs that have both CDs AND torpedos to make sure the capitals can't either escape nor can they survive. The gameplay update made capital gameplay this way just worse, and I hope this will be changed. It should work both ways - Snubs should be unable to deal with a battleship, and battleships should be unable to deal with snubs, if you want it balanced. Bombers are supposed to bring capitals down, and as they are to be slower and a bit bigger than usual snubs, battleships are supposed to be able to counter bombers, or at least fend them off, so the snubs can take care of the bombers. Currently, snubs are able to do everything. That's not balancing, but equalisation.
That could be changed if it was technically possible to make a difference between light and heavy CDs, as it's ridiculous a CD is able to stop tiny engines, giant, powerful engines, cloak- and jumpdrive charges, intercepting mines, missiles and torpedos while being available in big numbers on ANY ship that is not a battleship.
A combat system that offers different classes should always ensure to offer counters like a rock-paper-scissors principle.
Battleships < Bombers < Snubs < Gunboats < Cruisers < Battleships (easiest example, of course there are more relations between the different ship classes and sizes)
That should be the golden rule, with exceptions. Currently, it is
Snubs > everything
Snubs can dodge everything, no matter if Battleships, Cruisers (let's be honest, the Razors were the only thing a snub had to fear), Gunboats (as the torpedos are now a good way to give counter-pressure while the ship is still able to use CMs or CDs against incoming Gunboat missiles, and the fact the missiles are low on ammo), Bombers and even other snubs, as we see in every snub-only PvP event.
Stop making snubs being able to counter everything. That's the wrong way to go. We're not HHC.
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Thunderer - 01-10-2017
I am not exactly a fighter expert, but I think that the obvious is obvious.
I don't know what caused such changes. Everything was almost perfectly balanced before. Until the patch "fixed" what was not broken. Fighters have always been the privileged class, and giving them even more advantage raises questions. But my main concern is that the gap between the new players and the vets has been deepened even further by the removal of tracking missiles, despite the fact that "newbie weapons" had been promised. A new player will find that he can't hit an experienced one with guns, so he will buy a cap. Then he'll be destroyed by 2-3 VHFs, and quit.
Another concern is that HFs have lost their point. VHFs are so much more powerful in everything, and only slightly harder to hit. Their cruise speed is the same.
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Misfit - 01-10-2017
Also the bit where SHFs received a massive nerf into the ground in this update, when they needed a buff. I know you're all sick of me going on about it but oh my goodness how can you completely destroy a class of ship that was already pretty useless.
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Haste - 01-10-2017
Aux weapons were originally dreamt up by me as a means to increase the lethality of snub combat (a much-requested change at the time) and to introduce "noob-tubes". Unfortunately the current "implementation" is extremely barebones and unfinished. Several aux. weapons are in the works to replace weapons like the Firestalker and Sidewinder while being new-player-friendly.
Please try not to draw conclusions based on the status quo. The changes were really not meant to be put on the server in this state.
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Thunderer - 01-10-2017
Thanks, Haste!
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Sombs - 01-10-2017
(01-10-2017, 03:24 PM)Haste Wrote: Aux weapons were originally dreamt up by me as a means to increase the lethality of snub combat (a much-requested change at the time) and to introduce "noob-tubes". Unfortunately the current "implementation" is extremely barebones and unfinished. Several aux. weapons are in the works to replace weapons like the Firestalker and Sidewinder while being new-player-friendly.
Please try not to draw conclusions based on the status quo. The changes were really not meant to be put on the server in this state.
The problem is the people using the status quo, Haste. When it is obvious a patch makes things worse, why even patch it then and not test it otherwise. We are already straggling with the player count, and you even admit the status quo is everything else than optimal. Better don't do this unless there is something that justifies that major disimprovement.
I mean, I know for myself how eager one can be to bring new patches for things, but, uhm, this is just risky.
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Haste - 01-10-2017
Because they were included by mistake. There's nothing more to it. Nobody "deliberately" pushed highly unfinished content. The update was compiled from our development repository. The auxiliary stuff could have technically been left out, but it wasn't because the person "compiling" wasn't aware of the state of that stuff.
You're free to blame that on me, as I should have communicated that better at the time and kept a closer eye on what was and wasn't pushed to the repository.
RE: Questions about the recent patch - SeaFalcon - 01-10-2017
(01-10-2017, 03:38 PM)Haste Wrote: Because they were included by mistake. There's nothing more to it. Nobody "deliberately" pushed highly unfinished content. The update was compiled from our development repository. The auxiliary stuff could have technically been left out, but it wasn't because the person "compiling" wasn't aware of the state of that stuff.
You're free to blame that on me, as I should have communicated that better at the time and kept a closer eye on what was and wasn't pushed to the repository.
So request for the old version to be loaded up until stuff is properly covered in a patch? ))
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Jessitrescott - 01-10-2017
Thank you for making repair ships hard to fly , I was repairing battleships left and right when i got ganked by vhf's before .This patch brings some new challenges.
RE: Questions about the recent patch - Backo - 01-10-2017
Sunkiller regardless of what it's infocard says is a really good anti-snub weapon.
Also @Haste I think you might want to adjust ammo count. 50 torps are essentially 500K worth of potential damage (10K hull on sunkiller) and considering how nice the torpedo is (at least in duels) I think it's a bit too much. While it's a bit slower than missiles I believe it's worthwhile to learn how to use as I don't think it requires that much skill, but rather just some understanding of game mechanics (CDs, CMs, distance and velocity).Cannonball I am currently undecided about, but it seems a bit meh due to the fact it has a blast radius that often might catch you in it as well. Also noticed the fact it's a missile means it still relies on server not being laggy so it fires on time. Also missile count of 15 seems a bit small, but that just be the fact torpedoes are 50. Forgot to check it's max range and refire, but I'd say torpedo is way better anti-snub weapon in a duel.
Mini Razor is that sort of thing that you use if you want to brag at how good you are when you hit and wastes a lot of your powercore which for light ships isn't always that good. It's awesome if you hit but unlike hitting with a SNAC it just leaves the enemy VHF at 40% HP so it's far from an instant killer. I personally prefer the Sunkiller at the moment simply because it means I can keep more distance from my target and hit way more often even if doing only 10K dmg. Pro-side of razor is it's better when chasing someone running compared to the torpedo as torpedo relies a lot on the speed at you're closing the distance to your enemy.