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United Syndicates (Unioners/UN|) Feedback Thread - Printable Version

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RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Enkidu - 07-16-2017

(07-16-2017, 12:31 AM)Techpriest Wrote: I'm just upset that a bomber and a VHF definitely had the power to destroy a Pelican transport yet felt the need that the gunboat should interfere.

I would have preferred a 1v1 with the Gunboat as properly-initiated or a 1v2 with the snubs. Not both.

The thing about all of these fights is that they happened more or less directly after each other without the UN ships regenning between them in most cases - so we were fighting drained against a baffling number of ships, cumulatively. If the other side co-ordinated just a little bit better (such as BDM, RM, RFP, or Hessians + Bundschuh, we would have had the floor wiped with us, without question - We're all extremely surprised we survived what amounted to 5 different consecutive waves, each time against players good enough to near-perfectly ensure that we would have lost ships. The situation was so unique that I thought it was acceptable for us to attack sequentially under the circumstances (we never did all four ships on one ship at any one circumstances, the max was 3 v 2 or 2 v 1 when we thought that the player was better than the sum of both ships.

With just a little bit better co-ordination on what UN ships were drained and what friendly ships were in the same system with you (most of us didn't have any regens), you could have taken us out - and by the last wave, some of you were actually taking us out. If there wern't any other friendly ships in the same system we would have given an even fight - but we were expecting you to be reinforced near immediately.

We apologise if that wasn't fun, and player-list-based play shouldn't be hyper-encouraged, but when you're in the same system with a large number of friendly ships, you really should try and team-play with them.


I've got no sympathy for people who bring a smaller group of ships to a bigger group of ships and then demand duels like you're D'Artagnan or something when you have the firepower to do it. This is a game for everyone, not just PvP vets. Co-ordinate and stop going after blue-feeding your pros.


Edit: I'm considering making a post about this on the front page - our attitude to combat is this:

- We are Unlawfuls. If we are in somewhere a Lawful E - chat could be bumped at any time and ships could be spammed at us, we're going to stay together and play together - especially if we are near a capital planet or near a capital jump gate.

- We will fight together if their are additional lawful ships no more than two trade lanes away.

- We will fight together if we are engaged by a smaller group of ships running in. We will offer equal-odds fights if we can during said situation, but it's difficult to. We need to ensure that duels arn't attempts to peel ships away, and need to be in visual range so we can co-ordinate.

- We will balance for skill. People like Yber or Wesker, because they can take down 2 or 3 or more other snubs by themselves will end up being first snub target - that's not because we know who is behind the ships, but because we adjust our target calls dynamically during fights in accordance to who is dishing out (and taking) the most damage. However, we try to keep the number of people down firing at them to reasonable levels, but we won't put a noob into a 1v1 with a PVP pro, and on our side will try for our noobs to engage their noobs if we can situationally gauge skill, in the hope that they both learn something and have a fun PVP experience. This can be tough to do whilst ingame.

- We are pirates. We expect to be house E-Chatted at any second.

- We do ourselves engage superior numbers of ships and inferior numbers of ships.

- "Ganking" is a specific form of bad play involving constantly bringing in more ships to stack the deck - whilst we have done that before, just as everyone has done that before, it's only fairly rare when we outright "gank". Ganking is effectively ambushing a larger number of ships with a smaller number of ships beyond levels of skill and regen balance to troll/100% ensure the blue, or deliberately attacking a smaller group of ships before their nearby friends can arrive when they can only be reasonably expected to field the same number of ships as you - not a generic term for a large number of ships being in combat with a smaller group of ships.

- Again, we are unlawfuls, rather scummy unlawfuls, too. We're not blood dragons.

- It's our policy to just run off and leave ships that shield run for days as a form of evasion trolling (shield running just to regenerate shields is totally legitimate). We won't bite.

- Ganking does also not apply when you have a group of smaller ships attacking a significantly larger ship class (for example, a few bombers on a Solaris + Razor cruiser).

There you have it. This is how we try to play. In the BDM v UN engagement further up this thread, we screwed up the balance. We didn't screw the balance in new Berlin - you screwed your co-ordination. These are our informal PvP rules honed after ages of experimentation and finding what works. House Pirates are vulnerable - far more than navies or edgeworld factions. We have few places to regen safely, larger NPC patrols and solars are a massive danger, and there are far more lawful players than us - almost analogous to the dangers Nomad players face, without the cloaks.

Better luck next time - there will always be more fights, and we want you to have fun too. This is a team effort, after all.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Kauket - 08-02-2017

hello welcome to the tutorial of how to spot a garbage faction


number one; do they make silly claims?
[Image: C63KM12.png]


number two; do they lie and go back on their words about fairplay?
[Image: v1ZBW6n.png]


number three; do they use memes in local?

[Image: YxmVmMJ.png]


if you apply to all of the above, congratulations, you qualify as a garbage faction



seriously don't you ever dare cry to me about skill and balancing, you had 5 on 2, then on 3 to 4, and I joined to balance it out, even let khalk stay out because it was even - until you needed some grade D gunboat memeing in local.

arbiter is a very good shippie especially with broken missiles pls dont even

edit:

https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=147823&pid=1915517#pid1915517

lol ok baiting for negativity too, i refuse to believe that you're downgrading yourself to meme squad levels as an official faction, you should know better dunc.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Geoffacake - 08-02-2017

[Image: YVRjZid.png]
(05-29-2017, 10:01 PM)Geoffacake Wrote: As much as realistic combat engagements go, my lack of my factions current manpower is nothing i can blame on you.

Amazing isn't it? The leader of the UN said this though a PM and he wonder why my numbers are now wearing thin in my faction or why my people won't log for the UN. Your faction is not entirely to blame but the methods the UN are using are contributing to it; so it feels right that the statement I made is starting to feel invalid.

The scene started at Mannheim where generally new member to both Disco and my Faction is standing alone getting his ass sliced off with garnish as a seasoning insult by 5 other UN fighters. He was only there for a around a minute after arrival before he's met with a depleted shield and half a hull with almost no time to react in the middle of typing (Something that can't be observed but is scary to a new player.) I was the only other one to arrive within around the first 10 minutes means that I had 24 fighter guns diverted onto my ship to be met with almost an instantaneous destruction. I think you have to get the point that the BDM is in no way capable as a player-base to take on 5 UN ships with 2 of their fighters. (let alone the corsair gunboat that arrived later even if Lawful reinforcements arrived.)

Quote:[01.08.2017 10:27:13] UN|Gunda.Riehl: Contact in local area.
[01.08.2017 10:27:19] BDM|Rkt-Hans.Reitter: Halt Pilots! that is an order
[01.08.2017 10:27:25] UN|Gunda.Riehl: We've got a contact at Mannheim.
[01.08.2017 10:27:31] UN|Berta.Zwei: Seconded.
[01.08.2017 10:27:45] UN|Gunda.Riehl: Contact is sticking close to Mannheim.
[01.08.2017 10:27:53] UN|Gunda.Riehl: High orbit of Heidelburg.
[01.08.2017 10:28:10] UN|Gunda.Riehl: He's incommunicado.
[01.08.2017 10:28:28] UN|Berta.Zwei: Orders?
[01.08.2017 10:28:32] BDM|Rkt-Hans.Reitter: I command you to cease your engines at once, you are wanted criminals!
[01.08.2017 10:28:32] UN|Gunda.Riehl: Alright, he's black-commed.
[01.08.2017 10:28:37] UN|Gunda.Riehl: Glass him.

I'm not impressed at all, not even a single bit. And what got me even more was when we had Auxesia Allies en-route trying to reinforce our already crap-smeared situation. But then, one of them gets this message from a UN combatant.

[Image: axFl0Ys.png]

"Started Equal"

Those two words couldn't be further from the truth. Use this information how you please, but if you keep this up, there won't be any favorable outcomes on terms of your faction representation.

Edit:

(07-16-2017, 03:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: - We will fight together if their are additional lawful ships no more than two trade lanes away.

- We will fight together if we are engaged by a smaller group of ships running in. We will offer equal-odds fights if we can during said situation, but it's difficult to. We need to ensure that duels arn't attempts to peel ships away, and need to be in visual range so we can co-ordinate.

- We will balance for skill. People like Yber or Wesker, because they can take down 2 or 3 or more other snubs by themselves will end up being first snub target - that's not because we know who is behind the ships, but because we adjust our target calls dynamically during fights in accordance to who is dishing out (and taking) the most damage. However, we try to keep the number of people down firing at them to reasonable levels, but we won't put a noob into a 1v1 with a PVP pro, and on our side will try for our noobs to engage their noobs if we can situationally gauge skill, in the hope that they both learn something and have a fun PVP experience. This can be tough to do whilst ingame.

- We do ourselves engage superior numbers of ships and inferior numbers of ships.

- "Ganking" is a specific form of bad play involving constantly bringing in more ships to stack the deck - whilst we have done that before, just as everyone has done that before, it's only fairly rare when we outright "gank". Ganking is effectively ambushing a larger number of ships with a smaller number of ships beyond levels of skill and regen balance to troll/100% ensure the blue, or deliberately attacking a smaller group of ships before their nearby friends can arrive when they can only be reasonably expected to field the same number of ships as you - not a generic term for a large number of ships being in combat with a smaller group of ships.

There you have it. This is how we try to play. In the BDM v UN engagement further up this thread, we screwed up the balance.

I just read your previous post and if this is what you say you're faction is supposed to represent. Then you're obviously trying to pull the wool over our eyes unsuccessfully.

What you've done here today goes against almost everything that is stated in this quote by you.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Enkidu - 08-02-2017

Except it did, because two Unioners were engaging at the beginning and I tried to keep it a 2v2. I only had other people start engaging when the RM showed up, who are generally extremely skilled. Unioners were also incredibly spread out and with 2 minutes of time difference that fight would have started very differently for your side. Aux went in after a ship on your side went down, subbing in new nanos and shields into a fight with UN members who were all on various levels of drain, because we hadn't been straight from speyer, we'd come straight from piracy and were all a little worse for wear one way or the other - either lacking expendable munitions or regens, or with rad damage. We were all also very tired.

The last two times Auxesia came into a BDM + RM fight, we got absolutely dogpiled - so our response was to expect an absolute dogpile and generally try to whittle down the numbers faster than they arose. What eventually happened was a 6v5 that became a 5v4.

The gunboat wasn't called for, it materialised and offered to help. We decided "Yes" due to the skill base of the players involved and that we figured more would come out of the woodwork. We started off with fairly even numbers that stayed even, and escalated when the other side started to escalate. We've never had an encounter with Aux' that wasn't escalatory, so we used the GB as an area denial tool as we reassessed.

You had superior numbers and superior skills. We coordinated better so you lost the pew. Tell it like it is, go home, come back the next day. Consider thanking us for being around and giving you something to log for.

Edit: The same people who complain that UN| complains about ganking and balance, I took a leaf from, and stopped worrying excessively whilst trying to be fair. I'm now getting accusations that "UN| Ganks" from the same people. It's a game. Come with what you have, do what you can. If you want to get your own back, hit us during a convoy, when we're especially vulnerable - or just co-ordinate your forces a bit more. Nyx and Geoff were two of the people who formulated my attitude to PvP, in a good way. It's curious that you're now complaining over a fight loss. At the end of the day, you always had the resources at your disposal to win there. - you just didn't. Come back wearing a different hat - I'm sure you win some more.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Kauket - 08-02-2017

(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: You had superior numbers and superior skills. We coordinated better so you lost the pew. Tell it like it is, go home, come back the next day. Consider thanking us for being around and giving you something to log for.

LOL

You threw all those people onto that poor BDM guy who isn't an oldie but rather a new guy, and despite him getting backup, a number of totalling it to 4 v 5 - then with me joining, it was a straight 5v5. Those RM weren't really aces either, and one had a technical difficulty of his screen freezing during the fight. Our side had less people at the start.


Quote:[02.08.2017 15:45:23] A/)-Khalkotauroi: What a bloodbath.
[02.08.2017 15:45:33] A/)-Khalkotauroi: Guess I'll bathe in it, too.
[02.08.2017 15:45:38] [RM]Ge,Richard.Fiedler: We got this
[02.08.2017 15:45:42] A/)-Purple: It should be fine
[02.08.2017 15:45:44] UN|Gunda.Riehl: More of these Auxesian bastards. Can't pick a fair bloody fight.
[02.08.2017 15:45:45] A/)-Purple: if that sair gb comes
[02.08.2017 15:45:49] A/)-Purple: Life isn't fair,.
[02.08.2017 15:45:53] Hegemon[M]CO: Wow, the police! I am gonna mine your hull!
[02.08.2017 15:45:56] Hegemon[M]CO: Engaging
One of our people saw the razor GB incoming to the fight as he was coming too so it was obvious he was informed and knowing the people who were there - I find that more likely. Also we kept our extra guy out of the fight.

Keep your priorities straight. And keep the crappy memes at the door please, memes aren't funny, and neither are you.

(you=UN )


RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - MeowMeowMeow - 08-02-2017

I don't typically reply to these sorts of threads but for the sake of testifying for my comrades; I will say that I was given hardly a chance to roleplay after having made a point to turn around and return from the new Berlin gate to a group of unioners.

Now I don't really mind even an unfair fight (as realistically you should have to pick your battles, not all fights will be fair) but I was immediatly jumped on by 3 fighters, soon to be joined by a 4th and 5th while I was alone trying to setup some sort of roleplay interaction. I was clearly in the middle of typing when I started getting messages like "his comms are black" and other things to the effect that I wasn't replying - I was; but hardly given time as in the middle of typing I was mobbed by a group clearly not interested in any roleplay interaction.

Now again, I'm not particularly upset, I just would be more pleased if we could take a little more time. I would like to think that even as opposing factions we formed because we enjoy this sort of roleplay based on the political climate of Rhienland, no doubt both of our groups I feel could have a more pleasant time if we could be a little less trigger happy (yes even speaking for myself here to).

Thanks! hope you can take this constructively - Hans Reitter

EDIT: In reply to a few other posts while I was writing this one I have to state that I was attacked by at least 3 fighters while I was completely alone, it didn't start as a 2v2.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Traxit - 08-02-2017

I'm gonna call that buulllllshite, never in any point of that battle the lawful side had superior numbers. nor was their skill enough to win the number's disadvantage. In fact, you dwindled them slowly so the total force wouldn't be so large, in the end, it became a 4v5 - you lost a guy (4v4) but suddenly a Razorboat shows up and entirely demolishes the lawful side.

What you did since the start of engagements is behave in scummy ways, you killed the smaller forces by piling on them and when Auxesia finally arrived on the scene, so does your Razorboat. Now what would happen when there's an equal number of fighters but one side has a Gunboat?
[+]answer

Also please stop with the generalization of RM being mostly good pvpers. RM haven't logged for quite a while and all are rusty, including Admiral Driedrik Sterr himself (Yber). You want a proper excuse to fear RM? Then do so when you see the RM is highly ranked, that's how RM hierarchy goes.

What you did today is the pinnacle of scummery and you should expect some ooRP hatred coming from that, even from non-participants after they heard how vile you turned that fight out.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Enkidu - 08-02-2017

There's unanimity on our side that the fight was full of ebb-and-flow and we were fighting up a hill. So where's the truth?

Edit: Half of the guys here are people who started the whole "revenge ganking" trend anyway. People told me to stop worrying about ganks and just play the game. I stopped. I've encouraged the same attitude in UN. Is there no compromise that you're happy with? You have access to the entirety of the Rheinland lawful E-chat and a group command. You've only got yourself to blame if you can't dispose of a small pirate group, in a wing of five fighters that you had the opportunity to reaction log whatever you so desired to deal with. Remember, you came to us. We never went to you.

It's getting to the point that I'm under the assumption people will always salt on an active group.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - Geoffacake - 08-02-2017

(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: Aux went in after a ship on your side went down,
This doesn't excuse the fact that you OORP'ly told them to go away when we had currently only 2 ships within the area of combat and they were about to be whittled down to 1. If I included the number of RM ships that had were still enroute to the scene after, that would be 3. Thats still quite a significant less amount, especially with the ships that each side is flying.


(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: The last two times Auxesia came into a BDM + RM fight, we got absolutely dogpiled
Yet you've yet to evaluate that in those engagements that BDM are probably the first ones to be completely eliminated from the fight. This still doesn't excuse a 3v1. Probably dog-piling my new rekrut isn't a good way to then use your "Skill based" excuse.

(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: - so our response was to expect an absolute dogpile and generally try to whittle down the numbers faster than they arose. What eventually happened was a 6v5 that became a 5v4.
Started as a UN-3 vs BDM-1, then a UN-4 vs BDM-2.

(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: The gunboat wasn't called for, it materialised and offered to help. We decided "Yes" due to the skill base of the players involved and that we figured more would come out of the woodwork. We started off with fairly even numbers that stayed even, and escalated when the other side started to escalate. We've never had an encounter with Aux' that wasn't escalatory, so we used the GB as an area denial tool as we reassessed.

It took out almost half of our remaining ships instantly, thats not area denial

(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: You had superior numbers and superior skills.
Don't pull that, I'm in no way superior in PvP or the rekrut and our numbers were definetly not superior

(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: We coordinated better so you lost the pew. Tell it like it is, go home, come back the next day. Consider thanking us for being around and giving you something to log for.
I lost the pew, and I've gone home, doesn't mean that I can't leave a note telling you it was a bad move with reasonable arguments and how i feel about it.

If you keep this up, i'll be thanking you that you're the reason my faction won't be logging for your presence on the server.

(08-02-2017, 04:49 PM)Tænì Wrote: -Come back wearing a different hat - I'm sure you win some more.
I don't know what that means, and my combat history isn't relevant to this scenario.

RE: Die Reichsarbeitergesellschaft der Alster (UN|) Feedback Thread - MeowMeowMeow - 08-02-2017

Quote:There's unanimity on our side that the fight was full of ebb-and-flow and we were fighting up a hill. So where's the truth?
Come on, you know that's not true the moment 3 of your guys piled me alone. There never was a 2v2.

Edit: I'm not complaining about being in a 3v1 I'm complaining that you're denying it openly.