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+--- Thread: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. (/showthread.php?tid=150641)
Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - sindroms - 05-29-2017
So, apart from the post-event drama that accompanies most events, this was the first time that public concern was expressed regarding the Cultists as a concept in the world of Freelancer. I knew that, obviously, given enough time this would happen. I think the only reason why this did not come up sooner was that players were still very much hesitant to give negative feedback to something that, in their eyes, was keeping the server alive.
Now that the server population is steadily climbing again, it only took a person to finally express their concerns about the lore of the Cultists for other players to chip in and to point out the obvious flaw in the concept - that the Cultists are flawed as a lore concept.
And they'd be completely right to say that.
I have only told this story to a few people that were interested in the technical POV of the admin-made events, so this would be the short version on how Cultists came to be.
Back when I started using PVE elements to bolster activity during server-low times, I started off by testing them with npcs that were physically in the game. The way that the NPC spawn mechanic works is that it creates a NPC ship that is made out of pre-existing parts.
Ship type. Loadout. Reputation. Flight-style.
The key word here is that it requires pre-existing entries. A NPC may not be created from scratch.
So the first NPCs you saw from me during these events were IFFs that were hostile to the major of the population in the area. This was done so that both sides of the law spectrum would be able to team up against them. So naturally, the nomad and wild IFFs were the first choice. I think a few of you remember that odd, lone UNKNOWN IFFed LABC sitting near the sun in NY, inclined to flee from anything that got too close.
In other words, back then for PVE events I used D19 loadouts, the highest-level npcs the game had for missions and simply adjusted their IFFs to fit the situation. There were, however, issues with this approach.
First of all, for the lack of a better word, these npcs were too easy. And by extension, they did not offer any ''rewards'' for players. The PVE events were a novelty, but just like a chupachupps it quickly lost its flavor as players realized that it was often not worth traveling 5+ systems or creating a new character just for the benefit of shooting NPCs.
Which meant that new loadouts had to be created.
@Xalrok by my request, made a few loadouts with credit cards, which would be a tempting enough reason to participate in these events. Why run trade or mine, when you could shoot something that was fun to shoot. Still, it did not solve the issue that - especially with large amounts of caps, these npcs had the be spawn en-masse to ensure that people were having fun and earning credits - but also had a challenge.
Tier I PVE npcs - discontinued due to lack of feasible rewards.
1. PVE NPCs Tier II - The 25 Gun Nomads
The biggest concern when it comes to PVE events is that one of your main balance features is the amount of npcs you spawn in relation to the players. It quickly became obvious that in order for npcs to be at least a little challenging, you had to spawn them in big numbers, even for relatively small groups of players. This was especially problematic in places like Liberty and Bretonia, where you had huge amounts of players and caps for the former and a smaller amount of native players + an extended ZOI for Libs for the later.
The issue with this was not only the server load (Which would cause issues with even 15 npcs spawned) but also with individual player FPS lag. The fact that the npcs used the No2 ships escalated the issue, requiring us to remove engine effects and contrails. This was also when we attempted to make up for the challenge with loadouts.
That is how the 25 gun nomad ships were born.
Nomads were the first to obtain these new loadouts - if they were succesful, they would be made for any NPCs.
The idea was that the compensated firepower would mean that I would need to spawn a lot less ships. This proved to be true for the FPS pov. During these events players complained less about lag as there were just much less NPCs on the screen on any given time, but it turned out that the game engine could not handle the idea of sending information to every player present about the 500+ projectiles in their vicinity as the npcs chainfired them. Instead of FPS lag, players now were getting randomly DCed or were experienced connectvity issues during these events. This also ended up -decresing- the amount of npcs spawned at any given time. Too many and they would ''drift away''
- Tier II pve ships, discontinued due to game connectivity mechanic limitations.
2. PVE NPCs Tier III - The Beammads
It was back to the drawing board. What to do with the issue where npcs were finally an enough of a challenge for players to be spawned in much lesser numbers, but were now causing connectivity issues.
The reason for the server lag was ultimately found and it was the amount of projectiles the NPCs would spawn, which would then require the server to send as information to every single participant in the system. Players with smaller bandwith connections suffered unplayable lag, even though FPS drops were fixed.
The npcs finally dished out enough DPS to be spawned less and provide challenge. Now it was time to adjust it so that it would use less projectiles. So the following implementation was used:
Convert the 25 guns into 1 or 2.
Fine on paper, but the DPM converted to a gun that shoots once a second made it on par with the SNAC. This gun would instakill snubs.
>The damage was cut in half. The projectile speed was increased.
>That was too much as well.
>The damage was further cut in half, speed increased. And again. And again.
Finally we were looking at something similar to a ''zapper''. And it was then when @Treewyrm told us about the unused Nomad beam effects. So we made it into a beam. The hit ratio compensated for the overall less DPM compared to the 25 gun loadout, while the particle ''life'' of one second made it so that each NPC would generate a LOT less data for the server to send.
This is where events with 20 - 40 NPCs were made possible (in theory). The issue, however, was the damage these npcs did to snub players up close, where the hits were undodgable.
However, this is where the PVE events hit their 5 month mark and the K'Hara player faction starts expressing their concern that the nomads are being overused. While it was the perfect NPC faction to use for the events due to their hostility to all existing IDs and their (theoretical) omnipresence, there was (and stil is) just something rather tacky about a nomad fleet popping up in the middle of capital systems where things are fun from a gameplay perspective, but not too good when it comes to the RP justification of it.
It is at this point where we are made aware that these PVE events are now being demanded to fit the lore a bit more. So we lose the nomads as a IFF I can use at any time, the current guns are still too ''raw'' to be put for any IFF and there are still ideas to test? An issue indeed.
- Tier III pve ships - considered ''OK enough'' for use. Further fixing needed.
2. PVE NPCs Tier IV - The Cultists
Nomad lasers were turned red, three types made to fit the ships. Commodities for that loadout were turned to non-nomad and custom red SNacs were introduced for bombers. Missile ammo requirements were removed. Now then - what to do with these loadouts, since they were still being tested and used on specific ships with specific mounts. Nomad assassins became eagles, bombers became rocs, cruisers became corvos and the battleship role was filled by a Bustard.
What IFF to use to make them spawnable anywhere? Well, there was no go-to all-hostile IFF that would make sense to use. Criminal IFFs were neutral to a lot of things and where would simple pirate raiders even get the tech? The issue was not only the weapons themselves being futuristically overpowered in comparison to their player counterparts, but also the implementation of the jumphole generators and scientific data. This all came to the attempt to tie all of these things together.
* sindroms waves hand vaguely
"Some advanced sneaky tech hoarders that use JH Gens as means of transportation...something something. Religious, because why not."
@Teerin "Eh, good enough I suppose."
And so the Cultists came to be. Not because they were a planned addition, but because the implementation of items they drop and the guns they used needed -some- sort of explanation.
The cultists were introduced slowly enough, first by actual pilotable ships by me and Alley at the time, but soon - after establishing their goals and enough rumors, they became the antagonist - as desired.
That was a few months ago and now we have gotten to the point where the Cultists have, more or less, done their job as a placeholder baddie faction. The new PVE balance guns should be added soon enough, doing away with beams and these loadouts are using generic hardpoints that can be used on any ship and thus - any IFF.
Were the Cultists intended to be a part of Freelancer lore? No, not really. They were made ''plausable enough'' not to cause questions. Thinking that they would become a part of the lore as an antagonist was silly. After all, they are the same idea that was before used for the Phantoms, ROS, Harvesters and son on - all groups long-gone from the mod. The failure of the Cultists as a concept was just a matter of time. There is nothing much you can do with this concept right now apart from gradually removing it and replacing with the normal vanila factions. But PVE balance in terms of players in caps and snubs is rather problematic overall. Something the upcoming event systems with normal NPC spawns and zoneing will soon solve.
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - HassLHoFF™ - 05-29-2017
Sorry, but what are the Cultists or how did they appear and why did it fail? Heck I am just confused now.
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - Goliath - 05-29-2017
Cultists are real nice. Much better than the nomads, Much better than OP nomads.
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - diamond1 - 05-29-2017
(05-29-2017, 10:15 AM)sindroms Wrote: Something the upcoming event systems with normal NPC spawns and zoneing will soon solve.
So... They cultists are getting a fix for their own wellbeing to be fit in? or will it be removed overall?
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - Misfit - 05-29-2017
I'm glad you made something cool rather than do the generic "Freelancer mod that needs a universal antagonist so let's just say the Daam Kvosh has come back yeah good". I like the idea of a secret group of tech-worshipping, jumphole-creating, laser-firing bad guys that are so far removed from society we don't know anything about them. I also like that their tech worshipping is something that drives players to kill them, so we can obtain scientific data for bonuses and stuff and how the jumphole generators tie in to their lore but also create new events for us.
I think they should make a comeback. Not frequently, as you said there will be more faction-based PvE events and stuff. But it would be cool to see Cultists invading systems and dropping cool loots for us again some time.
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - Goliath - 05-29-2017
Make Cultists a playable faction!!!
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - sindroms - 05-29-2017
(05-29-2017, 10:34 AM)diamond1 Wrote:(05-29-2017, 10:15 AM)sindroms Wrote: Something the upcoming event systems with normal NPC spawns and zoneing will soon solve.
So... They cultists are getting a fix for their own wellbeing to be fit in? or will it be removed overall?
A last stand so to speak.
Then they are ''defeated'' and removed/reduced in use.
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - Karst - 05-29-2017
Good explanation, and huge thanks to you and Cameron going through the huge trouble to create successive generations of improved-balanced NPCs.
Personally, I never really had a problem with the genericness of the Cultists.
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - Goliath - 05-29-2017
(05-29-2017, 10:39 AM)sindroms Wrote:(05-29-2017, 10:34 AM)diamond1 Wrote:(05-29-2017, 10:15 AM)sindroms Wrote: Something the upcoming event systems with normal NPC spawns and zoneing will soon solve.
So... They cultists are getting a fix for their own wellbeing to be fit in? or will it be removed overall?
A last stand so to speak.
Then they are ''defeated'' and removed/reduced in use.
Don't. If 4 or 5 people dont like them, that doesnt mean the whole community hates them
RE: Retrospect: Events, PVE and Cultist Lore. - Enkidu - 05-29-2017
I really think Cultists are a necrotic insertion into the mod that degrade what the mod is about, in that it makes player-driven story and faction development irrelevant. It depends upon infinitely more lax plausibility standards than what the rest of us are held to. It's bluntly unfair. It's no longer an RP server if nothing the players do matter - it turns into a sandbox server. Losing what makes us special is not a road we want to go down.
Edit: Stuff like this is why Crossfire eventually died a death and Discovery lived on.
Further Edit: This is made worse by the incredible amount of time any form of change to Official Factions takes. It's tiring that the roleplay investments of official factions tend to require vast amount of skype pestering for even incremental story evolution, whilst an entirely new (unplayable) antagonist can be swept into the story.